FSD Beta 10.69

[GranularHail]

I’ve found that the roundabout behaviour is generally better in that it doesn’t always grind to halt before entering.
But its habit of signalling through the roundabout is kind of dangerous. It will signal a right turn even though it is going straight through. Today I had someone enter the roundabout right in front of me because they (not incorrectly) assumed I was signaling a right turn.

Agreed 100%. I had this behavior on 10.12.2 so I stopped letting FSD even attempt roundabouts on that version, for fear of exactly that situation.

Good to know 10.69.2 can do it too. I haven't seen 10.69.2 signal right incorrectly yet, but it does turn the left blinker on/off randomly approaching and throughout the roundabout, and perhaps could be flashing right blinkers sometimes (it's hard to see while paying adequate attention to the road).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

There’s an entire thread on this topic that started shortly after the V11 UI came out last December. It’s yet another example of how ill-conceived and poorly thought out V11 is.

Don’t remember messages being any larger.

Best idea is probably to have a log like they do for other errors. Can make them larger too.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Here is a NOT a roundabout

It is a special type of roundabout; a two-way one. Awkward for counter-clockwise traffic!

This signal light behavior CAN be dangerous.

Just as well we are driving. The signaling behavior of FSD at times can definitely be hazardous. I usually just disengage immediately if there is a spurious signal, when not driving for demonstration purposes. And of course signal for it when it is not doing so, which is common.

 

[diplomat33]

My initial impressions of FSD Beta 10.69.2

Did my normal 6 mile drive to Meijer:
It still has the map error where it thinks the road is blocked when it is not so FSD beta takes an unnecessary detour through a residential neighbor.
It made a right turn very aggressively even though it could not really see on the left.
It moved to the left turn lane and made a protected left turn on green confidently.
It moved to the left turn lane a bit late and started creeping forward into the busy intersection on yellow. I disengaged out of precaution.
I tried to engage FSD Beta in the parking lot of Meijer to see if it could navigate out of the parking lot but FSD Beta went the wrong way and stopped and asked me to take over.
After taking over and getting on a side road, I reengaged and it made a right turn and then a protected right at the busy intersection on red pretty confidently.
At another protected right, it still steers too much to the right and then self corrects moving the car back to the left in the right turn lane. It just stopped at the red turn light. Cars passed me on the right shoulder.
Approaching the turn to go to my house, FSD Beta still just stops in the middle of the main road and says I have arrived.

I also tried an unprotected left turn similar to Chuck's and it handled it quite well and very aggressively.

I also tried 10.60.2 on my campus streets where I work. It goes too fast because it sees a 15 mph limit as 25 mph. It ping pongs a bit on the streets with no middle lane line. It creeps and stops a lot at stop signs.

Overall, 10.69. 2 does seem much better with unprotected turns. It does seem more aggressive, perhaps too aggressive for my taste. I find it unnerving how it just suddenly dashes fast into a turn. In some situations, I can see it having less interventions than before but there are still big flaws.

 

[aronth5]

This further illustrate the need to make the message font size bigger!! I don't care if they make the message occupy the whole screen. Just to make the driver can read it in the short time it is displayed.!!

Sorta like "Dog Mode" font size?

 

[drtimhill]

My initial impressions of FSD Beta 10.69.2

Did my normal 6 mile drive to Meijer:
It still has the map error where it thinks the road is blocked when it is not so FSD beta takes an unnecessary detour through a residential neighbor.
It made a right turn very aggressively even though it could not really see on the left.
It moved to the left turn lane and made a protected left turn on green confidently.
It moved to the left turn lane a bit late and started creeping forward into the busy intersection on yellow. I disengaged out of precaution.
I tried to engage FSD Beta in the parking lot of Meijer to see if it could navigate out of the parking lot but FSD Beta went the wrong way and stopped and asked me to take over.
After taking over and getting on a side road, I reengaged and it made a right turn and then a protected right at the busy intersection on red pretty confidently.
At another protected right, it still steers too much to the right and then self corrects moving the car back to the left in the right turn lane. It just stopped at the red turn light. Cars passed me on the right shoulder.
Approaching the turn to go to my house, FSD Beta still just stops in the middle of the main road and says I have arrived.

I also tried an unprotected left turn similar to Chuck's and it handled it quite well and very aggressively.

I also tried 10.60.2 on my campus streets where I work. It goes too fast because it sees a 15 mph limit as 25 mph. It ping pongs a bit on the streets with no middle lane line. It creeps and stops a lot at stop signs.

Overall, 10.69. 2 does seem much better with unprotected turns. It does seem more aggressive, perhaps too aggressive for my taste. I find it unnerving how it just suddenly dashes fast into a turn. In some situations, I can see it having less interventions than before but there are still big flaws.

What setting did you for FSD? Chill/assertive etc?

 

[diplomat33]

What setting did you for FSD? Chill/assertive etc?

I am set to Chill.

 

[KLam]

Sorta like "Dog Mode" font size?

Yeah, big enough so that people can see outside the car! Non of those flashing blue stuff.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The blockage caused by the dealer sign probably helps generate walk up sales.

(Re: Padgett & Miramar)
I have ascertained that the dealer sign is not obstructing assuming you sit remotely close to the right spot. Of course if it weren’t there you could sit back a lot further and just relax and ponder whether you really want to make a left. The real problem is the electrical box though. I took another picture at what I felt was the closest I was comfortable creeping to the street. I think it was possible to go perhaps 1-2 feet further but it would be questionable. Not all humans creep forward this much, and while it does take the electrical box out of the picture, more visibility would be nice for planning purposes (you can see you have no idea past a certain point perhaps 7-10 seconds out), but not required. (And YES, those are CHEMTRAILS, associated with Miramar. Proof. [Actually a reflection.])

I also managed to get FSD beta to take the turn successfully. There was no traffic at the time it went. Another time it nearly got it but was way too slow to cross so I gave it gas. It was so so stressful compared to doing it myself (which is already stressful).
Got videos but I will have to take time to put them together to show all four attempts. I also took some other video of the intersection to show humans doing it (and getting honked at, bailing out to the right, etc.).

I find it unnerving how it just suddenly dashes fast into a turn.

This is a big problem right now. The body language of the car and how it communicates what it is doing to the driver is all wrong. It’s not really human-like to just roll a turn straight from a “creep” (which is often much faster than creeping!), even if it can do it. People are accustomed to stopping, creeping slowly for visibility, and then surging forward quite assertively. Right now the creep feels all wrong, and it is hard (impossible) to distinguish from going! This results in immediate disengagements when traffic is coming.

In the case above it’ll sometimes just go from the point of no visibility 10 feet back and just surge all the way into the road without any sign of slowing. Very disconcerting.

Here is the point it surged from today, for example (not cool, ):

In theory the car could be so good it could just roll this stuff in a superhuman fashion - but right now I do not trust it.

I can see why Waymo avoids this sort of turn, lol. It’s kind of hard if there is a lot of traffic, and you aren’t using the median (I have seen one person do it but they were sticking into traffic).

 

[Tronguy]

it's hard to know what to make of "dozens and dozens of people" saying anything on the internet. Often times its true, but you have no idea of the veracity or whether it's a representative sample so drawing firm conclusions can be dicey.

Adding my own anecdotal data point, I've found 10.69 to be an improvement from 10.12 and am more likely to use it simply because there were more times with 10.12 that I knew it wouldn't work and more times when I didn't have the patience for it.

The argument is that these people don’t exist. That people don’t drive FSD more now that it is better.

Dozens and dozens and dozens of people saying, “I drive more now that it’s better!” abolutely is data which counters that opinion.

Thing is, ever since getting into the Beta program, it swiftly became apparent that the Beta hasn’t about ease of use. It’s not about convincing others about how wonderful it is. It’s not about making it easier to drive around town.

The Beta is all about collecting data for Tesla so they can improve the product enough so it comes out of Beta.

I don’t know about other people, but whatever Beta is on the car, I’m literally out there working, every day when driving, to provide feedback to Tesla with that Video button.

The payday will be when it comes out of Beta.

For Tesla’s purposes, and for the purpose of all those working for the payday, this forum is useful. For one thing, it’s about safety: if people have been warned about a particular bug that could be dangerous, that means they’ll be less likely to be taken unawares by some dangerous move. A fair number of moves by the car under FSD-b would result in metal bending or worse.

For another thing, bugs found and reported on the forums stimulate an amplification effect: more people report the same bug, so it perhaps gets more attention.

So, better performance with newer versions of FSD-b is great: then us testers can move onto the other bugs. And it’s good to see progress: helps people not give up.

But if people are signing up so they can let the car run cross-town while they read a book, they’re in the wrong place.

 

[sleepydoc]

This further illustrate the need to make the message font size bigger!! I don't care if they make the message occupy the whole screen. Just to make the driver can read it in the short time it is displayed.!!

Another aggravating issue with V11 -
Not only are messages written in a font that’s too small to read easily, they’re placed at the bottom of the screen. If I have my right hand on the side of the steering wheel, anywhere from 2 to 5 o’clock it blocks the message.

Even if I don’t have my hand on the wheel and I’m looking forward it’s at a position that my left eye can’t see and is at the very bottom of my right eye’s field of view. If you wear bifocals, it’s at a position where it’s not in focus.

The only way to read it is to turn your head over and down, taking your gaze and attention off the road. Brilliant.

The Beta is all about collecting data for Tesla so they can improve the product enough so it comes out of Beta.

Yes, exactly. Too many people don’t get this.

I don’t know about other people, but whatever Beta is on the car, I’m literally out there working, every day when driving, to provide feedback to Tesla with that Video button.

Agreed. Using beta is work. As it’s progresses it’s become less work, though, and takes less patience, not unlike teaching a teenage driver. I find in less likely to skip using FSD now than I used to be because of this.

 

[Mardak]

Anyone wanna speculate what happened to 10.69.2.1?

The 1 "employee" vehicle on TeslaFi no longer even shows it as pending update anymore:
TeslaFi.com Firmware Tracker 2022.20.16 3f3288ae2

Maybe there was indeed a regression resulting in a pause in the release to pre-safety-score testers as well as pulling the update for those who hadn't even installed it yet.

Seems like they've moved on to a 10.69.2.2 with 2022.20.17 instead?
TeslaFi.com Firmware Tracker 2022.20.17

2022.20.17 Official Tesla Software Update - Teslascope

Release notes and statistics for 2022.20.17 with Full Self-Driving Beta v10.69.2.2 and more.

teslascope.com

 

[Ramphex]

Checking in

 

[bhakan]

That’s not the theory.

The theory is not even: “People are not driving FSD Beta more now that it has improved.”

I would not make either of those claims. I think the amount of driving being done is about the same, probably slightly increased (to make it definite, I would guess 10-20% increase, and as a percentage of overall surface street driving, maybe 5-10% (this is tougher to guess because depends on the typical driving being done in the population)).

But really I don’t have strong priors here. I would just like to see what the data say. Seems roughly stable so far, with the guesstimates we have seen posted so far.


I’m sorry to hear you got a strike.

My issue with it was that no information was provided. Was it a wheel torque nag? Was it an attention nag? How exactly did it progress? (The exact sequence was completely unclear from your post.)

If you get nagged for no apparent reason, you just stop using FSD, before getting a strike. That way if you have a hardware issue you don’t get a strike.


I definitely think you should take video going forward, so that if you get another strike, you can post it here, so we can figure out what the heck is going on. It would be unique YouTube content - no one has yet posted a video of a false strike.

So it happened again this evening. Unnecessary and excessive attention nags when it started to get darker in the evening. i never got any cabin camera hardware warning. In addition, these excessive attention nags started after I installed 69.2 and when it is darker inside the car . One intriguing observation was, this nag started to happen on the highway just before I took the exit when it was darker and then continued on local roads when FSDb was active. I am going to reach out to Tesla SC tomorrow. I cannot use FSDb in the evening until it is resolved.

 

[TS.42]

I ran a simple route tonight and it had a lot of issues with lane decisions, cautious creeping at red lights and lane guidance in very basic navigation situations. I just cannot continue with this in its current state. I was supposed to be in the far right lane to get onto the interstate and it wanted to move me to the left lane with only a quarter mile to go and lots of traffic around me. That was just too much to deal with so FSD will need more updates before this will work, despite my many attempts to force it to work for us.

 

[powertoold]

I am going to reach out to Tesla SC tomorrow. I cannot use FSDb in the evening until it is resolved.

New version coming within next 2 days.

 

[powertoold]

I was supposed to be in the far right lane to get onto the interstate and it wanted to move me to the left lane with only a quarter mile to go and lots of traffic around me. That was just too much to deal with so FSD will need more updates before this will work, despite my many attempts to force it to work for us.

69.2 kinda sucks when there's a lot of traffic around. One bad lane change causes too much anxiety. I'd rather it be patient and slow, causes me less anxiety. I can always disengage and go faster if needed.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So it happened again this evening. Unnecessary and excessive attention nags when it started to get darker in the evening. i never got any cabin camera hardware warning. In addition, these excessive attention nags started after I installed 69.2 and when it is darker inside the car . One intriguing observation was, this nag started to happen on the highway just before I took the exit when it was darker and then continued on local roads when FSDb was active. I am going to reach out to Tesla SC tomorrow. I cannot use FSDb in the evening until it is resolved.

Did you get a chance to see what it was warning about? I don’t think you get the flashing blue screen for the pay attention (camera) nag - though I could be wrong, since I have only ever seen that nag twice in the last 12 months, I think.

It sounds like you are saying attention nags (“Pay attention to the road.”). You should get your camera checked; it might be screwed up. This seems abnormal. Although maybe there are bugs with the IR illuminators with FSD and it could be just software.

 

[Ramphex]

So it happened again this evening. Unnecessary and excessive attention nags when it started to get darker in the evening. i never got any cabin camera hardware warning. In addition, these excessive attention nags started after I installed 69.2 and when it is darker inside the car . One intriguing observation was, this nag started to happen on the highway just before I took the exit when it was darker and then continued on local roads when FSDb was active. I am going to reach out to Tesla SC tomorrow. I cannot use FSDb in the evening until it is resolved.

Welcome to my life on 10.12 lol, didn’t use FSD all the way until 10.69 due to the obnoxious attention warnings

 

[MrTemple]

Thing is, ever since getting into the Beta program, it swiftly became apparent that the Beta hasn’t about ease of use. It’s not about convincing others about how wonderful it is. It’s not about making it easier to drive around town.

The Beta is all about collecting data for Tesla so they can improve the product enough so it comes out of Beta.

I don’t know about other people, but whatever Beta is on the car, I’m literally out there working, every day when driving, to provide feedback to Tesla with that Video button.

Interesting take on the topic.

People saying nobody drives more with the latest beta.

Evidence of tons of people saying they drive more with the latest beta.

So… you say you don’t drive more.

And how exactly is that relevant?

I’m not sure you could find a single person who thinks there aren’t plenty of people who drive about the same on the current version.