FSD Beta 10.69

[bhakan]

Welcome to my life on 10.12 lol, didn’t use FSD all the way until 10.69 due to the obnoxious attention warnings

when do you get those attention warnings? All the time? I hope we get to use FSDb without those nags. Within half a mile I got about 6-7 and I would have gotten my second strike today if I had used FSDb after those back to back warnings.

 

[bhakan]

Did you get a chance to see what it was warning about? I don’t think you get the flashing blue screen for the pay attention (camera) nag - though I could be wrong, since I have only ever seen that nag twice in the last 12 months, I think.

It sounds like you are saying attention nags (“Pay attention to the road.”). You should get your camera checked; it might be screwed up. This seems abnormal. Although maybe there are bugs with the IR illuminators with FSD and it could be just software.

I could not see any warning as the red "pay attention to road" seems instantaneous and when I was holding the yoke with correct amount of pressure. I hardly have any time to react. Yeah, something is weird.

 

[Mardak]

People saying nobody drives more with the latest beta

I agree with your primary statement of FSD Beta's capabilities have been increasing, and especially so with 10.69 compared to previous versions (and probably why Elon Musk wanted to highlight it with such a version number increase). But it's hard for people to want to support you with your constant use of fallacies such as exaggerating someone's point, oversimplifying when there's multiple causes, cherry-picking favorable anecdotes and dismissing others when they're actually trying to help you. Yes, there's people trolling too and driving the discussion away from the topic, but that's something we all have to deal with on this subforum.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I could not see any warning as the red "pay attention to road" seems instantaneous and when I was holding the yoke with correct amount of pressure. I hardly have any time to react. Yeah, something is weird.

Should check that the IR illuminators are working with your phone video camera. You have a 2022 Model S. Anyway go to a dark place and see if they show up (could test on an IR remote control first to be sure the camera can pick it up - depends on the camera I think). Certainly some video cameras can see them.

Nothing in the way of the camera?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I agree with your primary statement of FSD Beta's capabilities have been increasing, and especially so with 10.69 compared to previous versions (and probably why Elon Musk wanted to highlight it with such a version number increase). But it's hard for people to want to support you with your constant use of fallacies such as exaggerating someone's point, oversimplifying when there's multiple causes, cherry-picking favorable anecdotes and dismissing others when they're actually trying to help you. Yes, there's people trolling too and driving the discussion away from the topic, but that's something we all have to deal with on this subforum.

@MrTemple was specifically asked to figure out the approximate user numbers vs. time (each month would be good), and he refused. This was after @Daniel in SD did the legwork on capturing the total miles per month data. So @MrTemple is not interested in figuring out what the data actually say.

I think they would show a slight increase over time, with some variation from release to release, and some decay over time before each new release.

Really also need to know % of surface streets miles traveled since miles traveled is not likely as constant as it usually is, over the past year, due to the pandemic. But that strengthens the argument that there are probably more surface street miles traveled per user per month now vs. last year.

I think that what is lost in this is that the vast majority of people now part of the program don’t focus obsessively on FSD like most people here. So they will just use it if it makes sense and not think too much about it, nor post on social media. Those people will determine the trends.

 

[powertoold]

Apparently 69.2.1 is rolling out to the OGs?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1571726027793248256

https://twitter.com/x/status/1571729309697724417

 

[MrTemple]

@MrTemple was specifically asked to figure out the approximate user numbers vs. time (each month would be good), and he refused. This was after @Daniel in SD did the legwork on capturing the total miles per month data. So @MrTemple is not interested in figuring out what the data actually say.

What the data say about what? That was a separate discussion about the cumulative number of miles illustrating something in their particular context. A point I repeatedly said stands equally whether every Beta tester has driven exactly the same or different number of miles on each version of the beta.

Can you say red herring?

The second question, whether some people actually are driving more on better betas, is obviously evidenced by the many people saying they ARE.

And unless there is an offsetting number of people driving LESS on the better betas, then that means that a third conclusion could be made (one which I am not asserting and have never asserted), that the average number of miles driven per person on recent betas is higher than previous versions.

You seem stuck on arguing a point I’ve never come close to making, that people on average are using the recent beta more.

Can you say straw man?

*cue the passive aggressive laugh reaction and continued logical fallacies trying to argue the point you want to argue which I never made*

 

[Ramphex]

when do you get those attention warnings? All the time? I hope we get to use FSDb without those nags. Within half a mile I got about 6-7 and I would have gotten my second strike today if I had used FSDb after those back to back warnings.

It used to just happen non-stop, after striking out once, I gave up on using FSD until .69 came out. It still does it now but very infrequently. All I have to do is disengage and re-engage to fix it. FSD sucks so much balls in its current state that I drive manually 99% of the time.

 

[MrTemple]

It’s actually 10.69.2.2 in 2022.20.17.

 

[Ramphex]

It’s actually 10.69.2.2 in 2022.20.17.

View attachment 854159
View attachment 854160

Shillabang shillaboom he got it already

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You seem stuck on arguing a point I’ve never come close to making, that people on average are using the recent beta more.

My bad! I admit I didn't realize you weren't making an argument about average miles driven increasing, but reviewing your posts quickly, I agree I didn't see that claim. I guess I just figured you were implying it, with the focus on all these people driving more. (You did say you thought that people were driving more miles, but that it wasn't relevant to your point.)

Since that's not your point, the discussion isn't very interesting to me. (Since that for me is something that seems like it would be interesting to determine.)

Your point appears to be that more miles are being driven on FSD Beta, and these will increase faster the more people are let in. I agree with that. And that because this is happening without accidents, and miles are now getting added by a wide less selective group, it must be quite safe (or at least getting safer; don't want to put words in your mouth). Maybe you would only make claims about capability? Not sure.

I agree that miles are increasing at a faster rate now than when there much were fewer participants. I can't really say anything about the safety. Not nearly enough miles yet. I think capability has increased a bit.

I also agree that some people say they are driving more. There's no reason not to believe them. But not sure what the relevance of that is, in the bigger picture.

Anyway I'm not sure what the point of this side discussion is, and it is now boring and repetitive, so I think I'll this will be the last comment from me on this unless the discussion changes substantively.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Shillabang shillaboom he got it already

Maybe you could too, but the half-life of your shill catharsis is about 5 minutes.

 

[Tronguy]

Interesting take on the topic.

People saying nobody drives more with the latest beta.

Evidence of tons of people saying they drive more with the latest beta.

So… you say you don’t drive more.

And how exactly is that relevant?

I’m not sure you could find a single person who thinks there aren’t plenty of people who drive about the same on the current version.

Nah, I drive with whatever FSD-b is on the car. And report foibles as often as they occur. Data for Tesla is data, I figure, whether the release being run is the latest and greatest or is on the way out.

And there may be people who are doing what I’m doing or there may be the opposite, who get mad, once, with a particular foible and stay off the software until a newer and presumably better release shows.

My post was directed at the latter crowd: if one wants the Beta to stop being Beta, then get out there and collect data. That’s what the program is about. Anything else is missing the point, which is why I made it.

 

[willow_hiller]

For 10.69.2.2 rollout watching purposes:

2022.20.17 Official Tesla Software Update - Teslascope

Release notes and statistics for 2022.20.17 with Full Self-Driving Beta v10.69.2.2 and more.

teslascope.com

TeslaFi.com Firmware Tracker

www.teslafi.com

2 installed on Teslascope and 4 pending on TeslaFi, which is already more than 10.69.2.1 had.

 

[sleepydoc]

Maybe you could too, but the half-life of your shill catharsis is about 5 minutes.

Nah, he’s not a real shill. That was just a half-hearted attempt he made before. Elon sees right through such shenanigans!

 

[willow_hiller]

Chuck's ULTs on 10.69.2.2:

 

[powertoold]

Let's goooo

100% success in heavy traffic

 

[Goose66]

After driving on 10.69 for a week and having it do several commutes and side drives, I can honestly say it is one of the biggest regressions I have experienced in a FSDb update. It may be confirmation bias, but I can't really see anything that is noticeably better. On the other hand, there are a number of things that are significantly worse, primarily:
1. The problem I have in bumper-to-bumper traffic on the highway in NoA has made its way to Autosteer on City Streets ("AoCS") - the car wants to be accelerating or braking constantly. If it's not happily going down an empty street at the max speed, it's braking hard or accelerating to adjust speed based on the conditions around it. Reacting to lights turning green, pedestrians entering view, proceeding through intersections, etc. - it has gotten extremely jerky and lost all "subtly" in its driving ability. Some may say this is somehow inherently safer, but it's very uncomfortable for passengers (including the operator) and makes AoCS much less useful as a feature.
2. Lane selection has gotten orders of magnitude worse. You can tell it has migrated away from using map data (as Elon touted) and instead wants to read the lane lines and street markings. However, for many of my drives, that means it is constantly getting into the wrong lane. It will make, e.g., a right turn going into the leftmost lane on the new road, then put on the signal to move to the right lane, then immediately signal to move back to the left lane for an upcoming left turn. And at many places it finds itself in the wrong lane to proceed, the white line goes solid and the car won't cross, and it's screwed and I have to intervene. To be fair, some of these situations require "local knowledge" - having driven there before and knowing the lanes split the way that they do. But, because it can't learn local routes and no longer relies on map data, it will never be better at these intersections or conditions, which is very disheartening.
3. Unprotected left turns and right-turn on red are just really bad now. I don't know if it can no longer see oncoming traffic or if its aggressively "creeping," but I no longer feel safe allowing it to turn right on red or make unprotected left turns if there is any oncoming traffic. It just feels like it wants to lurch out and get hit by the oncoming cars, and I don't have the guts to let it go and see what's going to happen. Again at this stage in the game, it makes AoCS basically unusable as a feature because it can't be trusted at all in these situations.

I don't remember enough about some early versions of FSDb to be able to say if 10.69 is the worst version of FSDb ever, but I am confident in saying this is the worst step back in a single version upgrade I have experienced since v10.5 last November. As far as all those saying it's a significant improvement? I am simply not having the same experience here in Atlanta. I have said several times in the past I would wait for v11 and if it wasn't any good, I would back out of FSD Beta testing. It's getting harder and harder to wait for v11, though (if it is ever coming).

 

[bhakan]

It used to just happen non-stop, after striking out once, I gave up on using FSD until .69 came out. It still does it now but very infrequently. All I have to do is disengage and re-engage to fix it. FSD sucks so much balls in its current state that I drive manually 99% of the time.

Is that on your refresh MS? I did not see any issues until i updated to 69.2 and that too when the cabin is darker with no daylight. Disenaging and reengaing does not fix it as the minute I engage AP/FSD I get the red attention warning. I made a service request this morning and we will see what the resolution is.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Let's goooo

100% success in heavy traffic

So close!

6/7 per the rules (perfect ~6-7 second gap missed on the last turn). This is setting aside Chuck’s comments about cars hitting the brakes for him (which would also be failures, if true, and due to excessive creep speed rather than overly cautious behavior of other drivers). I don’t know how he could tell they were braking for him so I discount this, unless there is clear evidence somehow.

Anyway it looked pretty good, though the butt sort of hung out on one of the turns (not counting it because the car relatively quickly proceeded).

I think the two areas where the ULT is still challenged is that body language when creeping (both for the driver and other drivers), and the median pose localization consistency.

That body language at the start is probably the biggest issue. Also the whole “using the median” is a very limited use case (many medians are uncomfortable to use this way). The pose isn’t as big a deal, since it can be fixed with the accelerator (assuming a wide median!).

Now that I have done a few of these, I know that body language makes it very tricky. Doesn’t look like they fixed it here based on Chuck’s response but hopefully on a future version.

I’m also not counting the inconsiderate driving against it. Yes, that is not cool (have experienced it). But hard to tell if there were alternatives (like not creeping as far) without being there.

It is interesting how far it is creeping. To me it looks ok, it is just the approach to that point which is apparently too sudden. Hard to see in videos but I believe Chuck.

My prediction is that in 10.69.3 we’ll see “new” issues in heavy traffic that actually already exist here (just not a large enough sample size with enough scenarios). Won’t be a regression, just the same.

It’s still not crossing assertively enough when it goes to the median, or in general. Maybe in 10.69.3!