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FSD Beta 10.69

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Yeah if this is actually true, it's kind of garbage. It should be possible to drive the car and never see a nag. But if that requires alternating torque that's pretty annoying, particularly on freeway drives.

We'll see. As I said repeatedly, I'm not 100% sure of my observations; nowhere close. Just started paying attention, so limited sample size and opportunity to check the details (it might even work differently when on the freeway - my observation about the alternating torque was on a surface street).
This whole nag discussion makes me wonder why I rarely get them as long as I hold the wheel like I've done for years. Not sure why so many are obsessed by this topic.
 
This whole nag discussion makes me wonder why I rarely get them as long as I hold the wheel like I've done for years. Not sure why everyone is so obsessed by this topic.
I have on of these to rest my hand on and never had a problem.
 

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This whole nag discussion makes me wonder why I rarely get them as long as I hold the wheel like I've done for years. Not sure why so many are obsessed by this topic.

Yeah it is a bit silly. They are not much of an issue. Again, the idea is determine how to achieve absolutely zero nags, and to identify impediments to that goal. Having even the preliminary warning come up is a distraction, so the question is how you can *completely* eliminate those without doing anything - no button, no nothing. Literally do nothing but drive the car normally - how can zero nags be obtained with 10.69.3?
 
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This whole nag discussion makes me wonder why I rarely get them as long as I hold the wheel like I've done for years. Not sure why so many are obsessed by this topic.

You either don’t live in a flat state with straight roads or are just lucky. I rest my left hand on the yoke all the time and still get nags non stop. Maybe my puny hands don’t provide enough torque.

Also constantly looking at the dash to check for nags before they turn red and whiny is super annoying, considering my speed is set, and I’m paying attention to the road and other drivers outside of the car.
 
You either don’t live in a flat state with straight roads or are just lucky. I rest my left hand on the yoke all the time and still get nags non stop. Maybe my puny hands don’t provide enough torque.

Also constantly looking at the dash to check for nags before they turn red and whiny is super annoying, considering my speed is set, and I’m paying attention to the road and other drivers outside of the car.
I can put a finger on the yoke and it satisfies wheel nag...it doesn't take much. Maybe something is wrong with yours?
 
I can put a finger on the yoke and it satisfies wheel nag...it doesn't take much. Maybe something is wrong with yours?
Right, but can you avoid nags entirely?

That’s the goal. Note: as far as I can tell, applying fairly steady torque to the wheel by hand (unbalanced of course), does not work. It should! (And there isn’t any technical barrier to that not working.)

Can verify for yourself; description and tentative claims above.
 
Right, but can you avoid nags entirely?

That’s the goal. Note: as far as I can tell, applying fairly steady torque to the wheel by hand (unbalanced of course), does not work. It should! (And there isn’t any technical barrier to that not working.)

Can verify for yourself; description and tentative claims above.
I don't get any nags unless I check my phone, but even then I can check my phone on the charger while keeping my head straight and not get nags.

Are you saying you still get nags with consistent wheel torque and looking forward?
 
I can put a finger on the yoke and it satisfies wheel nag...it doesn't take much. Maybe something is wrong with yours?
The issue is resting the so called finger doesn’t necessarily satisfy/prevent the nags from happening. You have to play whack-a-mole with them by constantly looking at the dash and then applying more force with the mentioned finger.
 
The issue is resting the so called finger doesn’t necessarily satisfy/prevent the nags from happening. You have to play whack-a-mole with them by constantly looking at the dash and then applying more force with the mentioned finger.
I do not experience that almost 17k miles using NoA/FSD Beta.

Edit: Again, not saying I've never seen a nag, but if I rest a hand or even fingers on the yoke and look forward...I don't. I don't even look for them because it's not an issue. I get them when I play too much looking for a song or check my phone, then I have to apply force in the opposite direction or harder to clear it, but that's my fault.
 
I don't get any nags unless I check my phone,

Absolutely zero? Can you provide a video showing this on a 20-minute drive on surface streets?

Are you saying you still get nags with consistent wheel torque and looking forward?
Yes. I suspect I could avoid them entirely if I periodically (every 30-60 seconds) alter the torque I apply to the wheel. This would be annoying and distracting of course and add to driver burden.

Definitely when looking forward on surface streets, with torque, nags are quite infrequent. But a reasonable objective would be to easily have zero, when looking forward and applying consistent modest torque.

Nags on AP are not covered here. No idea how they work.
 
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In general nags in 10.69.3.1 are pretty infrequent (once every few minutes) when paying attention to the road with both hands on the wheel.

I perceived that maybe they are more frequent if you use the touch screen or take a hand off the wheel or divert gaze.

For my prior method of constantly torquing the wheel, I've noticed it doesn't really work, and this is pretty annoying and makes me wonder about the sophistication of their wheel weight defeat sensing.

Specifically, if I am actively torquing the wheel, it will still come up and bug me about torquing the wheel. If I increase torque in the SAME direction, it won't satisfy the nag. If I release the torque and let the wheel free, it of course doesn't satisfy the nag. I have to torque in the opposite direction to clear the nag.

I have to do a bit more testing of this observation (obviously all observations are subject to error). Others could also test this.

But anyway, this makes sense if they're trying to detect wheel weights in a primitive fashion. Though I can't explain why an increase in torque in the same direction would not be sufficient - unless they have simple binary sensing of applied torque and direction (which I doubt - they must have more info). Anyway pretty sad they're not being much more sophisticated, if these observations are actually correct (not clear, as I said - could be completely wrong).

Anyway, just observations, needs to be carefully confirmed, and I could be wrong. I do have video of this but of course it is hard to tell exactly what I am doing with the wheel so it's kind of pointless to watch.

But anyway, this basically means I am no longer planning to torque the wheel continuously to satisfy nags - since it's not clear it helps unless I am alternating torque frequently (I need to check this scenario to see if that condition ensures I never see a nag - I don't know how the "timer" works or whether a timer for last torque application even exists).

I've never paid that close attention to clearing the nags, how they work, and what is required for clearing them, since they don't really bother me and I don't have a problem with them. So maybe this is covering old ground.
Well, try to think a little differently.

If your hands are on the steering wheel and watching the road, you will try to steer the car according to the road conditions. This steering intend should correspond to what FSD beta is trying to do. If the steering match exactly (which is unlikely if you are a human), there will be no error torque. A big mismatch will disengage. So the user will be trained to adjust the torque difference to be "light" but still follow the road conditions. Actually, the system could introduce slight steering errors to test the user responds. The system is able to quantize this slight torque differences over time. Hence, if your hands are on the steering wheel and actively watching the road, you will get little or no nags. Otherwise, more nag and strike out.
 
Absolutely zero? Can you provide a video showing this on a 20-minute drive on surface streets?


Yes. I suspect I could avoid them entirely if I periodically (every 30-69 seconds) alter the torque I apply to the wheel.

Definitely when looking forward on surface streets nags are quite infrequent. But a reasonable objective would be to have zero, when looking forward and applying consistent modest torque.

Nags on AP are not covered here. No idea how they work.
I don't have anything setup to record myself, but I drove to Atlanta from Columbia SC last week and didn't see one nag the entire trip. My wife handled my phone and music and I honestly just don't look for them. So they could pop up, but I don't notice. I don't have any strikes on either car.
 
Just tried to make a video of my hand resting on the yoke, while me looking straight at the road, but got dinged by this steamy load of sugar to “pay attention”

I don’t understand how these “professional“ coders/programmers can’t make a less *sugar* software for the cabin camera. Just because someone has a rectangular device within the view of the camera doesn’t mean I’m not looking at the road.
 
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but if I rest a hand or even fingers on the yoke and look forward...I don't. I

Zero, though? On surface streets (AP probably works differently though I don’t know.)

I don't have any strikes on either car.

Neither do I. It’s very easy to avoid strikes.

Detailed description above of what I experience in brief experiments. I could be wrong about some of it.


f your hands are on the steering wheel and watching the road, you will try to steer the car according to the road conditions. This steering intend should correspond to what FSD beta is trying to do

Yes, and if you actually alternate steering torque you might end up with zero nags. However, this is not realistic. It’s easiest (and fine!) in most conditions to just apply light force in one direction. I do sometimes alternate in response to conditions but usually not needed.

you will get little

But zero?

Just tried to make a video of my hand resting on the yoke, while me looking straight at the road, but got dinged by this steamy load of sugar to “pay attention”

You can’t make a video. It can see you! And it won’t like that behavior.
 
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