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FSD Beta Attempts to Kill Me; Causes Accident

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been trying to work with Tesla to resolve this issue out of the public domain, but they have been characteristically terrible and honestly don't seem to care. Over the last 3 weeks, I have sent multiple emails, followed up via phone calls, escalated through my local service center, and nobody from Tesla corporate has even emailed or called to say they are looking into this. One of my local service center technicians opened a case with engineering, which she said would take 90 days to review. I find that absurd, especially when Tesla is releasing new versions every 2 weeks. I think it's important for people to be extra cautious about which roads they engage FSD beta on, especially since Tesla seems to be ignoring my report entirely.

49548280121_4d220fbae7_c.jpg



This incident happened almost 3 weeks ago on Monday, November 22nd at around 6:15 in the evening, just shortly after the sun had set. I was driving my Tesla Model Y on a two-lane rural road and had FSD engaged. The car was still on version 10.4 at the time. It was a clear night, no rain or adverse weather conditions. Everything was going fine, and I had previously used FSD beta on this stretch of road before without a problem. There was some occasional phantom braking, but that had been sort of common with 10.4.

A right banked curve in this two lane road came up with a vehicle coming around the curve the opposite direction. The Model Y slowed slightly and began making the turn properly and without cause for concern. Suddenly, about 40% of the way through the turn, the Model Y straightened the wheel and crossed over the center line into the direct path of the oncoming vehicle. I reacted as quickly as I could, trying to pull the vehicle back into the lane. I really did not have a lot of time to react, so chose to override FSD by turning the steering wheel since my hands were already on the wheel and I felt this would be the fastest way to avoid a front overlap collision with the oncoming vehicle. When I attempted to pull the vehicle back into my lane, I lost control and skidded off into a ditch and through the woods.

I was pretty shaken up and the car was in pieces. I called for a tow, but I live in a pretty rural area and could not find a tow truck driver who would touch a Tesla. I tried moving the car and heard underbody shields and covers rubbing against the moving wheels. I ended up getting out with a utility knife, climbing under the car, and cutting out several shields, wheel well liners, and other plastic bits that were lodged into the wheels. Surprisingly, the car was drivable and I was able to drive it to the body shop.

Right after the accident, I made the mistake of putting it in park and getting out of the vehicle first to check the situation before I hit the dashcam save button. The drive to the body shop was over an hour long, so the footage was overridden. Luckily, I was able to use some forensic file recovery software to recover the footage off the external hard drive I had plugged in.

In the footage, you can see the vehicle leave the lane, and within about 10 frames, I had already begun pulling back into the lane before losing control and skidding off the road. Since Teslacam records at about 36 frames per second, this would mean I reacted within about 360ms of the lane departure. I understand it is my responsibility to pay attention and maintain control of the vehicle, which I agreed to when I enrolled in FSD beta. I was paying attention, but human reaction does not get much faster than this and I am not sure how I could have otherwise avoided this incident. The speed limit on this road is 55mph. I would estimate FSD was probably going about 45-50mph, but have no way to confirm. I think the corrective steering I applied was too sharp given the speed the vehicle was going, and I lost grip with the pavement. On the 40% speed slowed down version of the clip, you can sort of see the back end of the car break loose in the way the front end starts to wiggle as the mailbox makes its way to the left side of the frame.

Surprisingly, I somehow managed to steer this flying car through a mini-forest, avoiding several trees (although I did knock off the driver's side mirror). There is no side panel damage whatsoever. The bumper cover is ruined and the car sustained fairly severe structural/suspension damage, both front and rear suspension components.

Luckily, nobody was hurt (except my poor car). I could not imagine the weight on my conscience if I had been too slow to intervene and ended up striking that oncoming vehicle. Front overlap collisions are some of the most deadly ways to crash a car, and bodily injury would have been very likely.

I have a perfect driving record and have never had an at-fault accident in the over 10 years I have been licensed. The thought of filing an insurance claim and increasing my premiums over this incident makes me sick. I am considering legal action against Tesla, but I'm not going to get into that here. Just wanted to make everyone aware and hyper-vigilant about FSD. I thought I was, but then this happened. I am going to be much more careful about the situations in which I decide to engage it. There is too much at stake, it is not mature enough, and frankly, Tesla's apathy and lack of communication around this incident really concerns me, as both an owner and a road-user.


tl;dr: Be careful with FSD, folks. And if you get into an accident, hit the dashcam save button or honk your horn before you put it in park.



Display of a Tesla car on autopilot mode showing current speed, remaining estimated range, speed limit and presence of vehicles on motorway lanes” by Marco Verch is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
 
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Couldn’t agree with this more.

I think we can all agree that this stuff is still in its infancy (relatively speaking considering how long we’ve had access to personal vehicles).

However, one thing I do like about AP/FSD is that so far I haven’t seen any Teslas on AP road raging of their own volition or using the car as a weapon, which is a behaviour people display with alarming regularity. Some things are worth working at.
I think that the Beta driver selection is also very interesting. Elon has in one fell swoop encouraged thousands upon thousands of motorists to drive better....I wish Audi would do something similar.
It also perhaps demonstrates that we might all drive safer if the government paid us ....
 
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S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
6,532
7,946
Snohomish, WA
Agreed, and people tend to react emotionally to a single accident rather than look at the overall statistics. However, this is mostly a familiarity thing: after all, we all tolerate the relatively high accident risks of normal human driving for the convenience of personal car travel.
What I find fascinating is what we tolerate in terms of excessive speed with no fear of it ever being governed.

The new Performance Model S had a fatality accident within the first few months of release because someone raced it on a surface street, but didn't give themselves time to stop. It ended up going airborne and going through a house. Something that wouldn't had happened if Tesla speed limited the car to 90mph.

Yet if a single fatality accident happens with any L4 fleet vehicle or FSD Beta vehicle the entire thing would likely get temporarily suspended.

In actual practice robocars will likely need to be 10x safer than the average human.

Personally I would be okay with them being not being compared at all to humans, and instead they would have their own safety requirements that got tighter as time went on.
 
FSD Beta did not attempt to kill you. That's a misleading title and should be removed. It looks like you over corrected and lost control of your car. It happens. Glad you are safe and that no one was hurt. While FSD may allow you to engage under these conditions, I'm not sure it was the best judgement to beta test this feature on a rural two-lane highway going 50 mph at night.
It's a really good idea to do some spirited driving in your car to learn the limits and how to handle it in an emergency!
Otherwise, it's extremely easy to over-correct and not know how to correct for that.
 
What I find fascinating is what we tolerate in terms of excessive speed with no fear of it ever being governed.

The new Performance Model S had a fatality accident within the first few months of release because someone raced it on a surface street, but didn't give themselves time to stop. It ended up going airborne and going through a house. Something that wouldn't had happened if Tesla speed limited the car to 90mph.

Yet if a single fatality accident happens with any L4 fleet vehicle or FSD Beta vehicle the entire thing would likely get temporarily suspended.

In actual practice robocars will likely need to be 10x safer than the average human.

Personally I would be okay with them being not being compared at all to humans, and instead they would have their own safety requirements that got tighter as time went on.
This is a really good point.

A LOT of people look at individual cases and judge everyone's experience based on that. It's always good to remember that positive content is boring content. Someone posting a video of FSD Beta working flawlessly for hours would get a handful of views on YouTube, someone posting a video of FSD Beta doing something wrong could make headline news on mainstream media.

It can be very difficult to judge the reliability of something purely by owner reports and media outlets. If say 5 FSD Beta users have been in an accident as a result of an action FSD Beta made and they didn't correct for it, that'd only be 0.025% of FSD Beta users for example.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, I'm just saying it's something good to look at the bigger picture. After all, for an early beta, 0.025% of vehicles causing an accident over 20,000 users is actually not a bad statistic, just 0% would be better. ;)

I do hope OP is okay though after what they experienced!
 
Good point. The driver is expected to take over quickly, so it doesn't matter if FSD is trying to kill you, you need to be quick to take over.
Interestingly, if this had happened in the UK the governing body (DVSA) which handles safety reports likely wouldn't accept it as a defect. In the eyes of the DVSA, it's an assistance feature aimed to assist the driver, the driver is still in control of the vehicle at all times.

I wonder if their stance on that will change at all as we start to get FSD Beta here several years in the future, either way, for now I'm not sure I disagree. It's your car, you're driving it not the car. :)
 
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Interestingly, if this had happened in the UK the governing body (DVSA) which handles safety reports likely wouldn't accept it as a defect. In the eyes of the DVSA, it's an assistance feature aimed to assist the driver, the driver is still in control of the vehicle at all times.

I wonder if their stance on that will change at all as we start to get FSD Beta here several years in the future, either way, for now I'm not sure I disagree. It's your car, you're driving it not the car. :)
In fact this is what would happen to you....”Driving without due care and attention carries a penalty of either a disqualification, or between 3 and 9 points. You can also be faced with a fine up to £2,500 depending on the nature of the incident. The worse the driving, the worse the penalty will be.”
 
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In fact this is what would happen to you....”Driving without due care and attention carries a penalty of either a disqualification, or between 3 and 9 points. You can also be faced with a fine up to £2,500 depending on the nature of the incident. The worse the driving, the worse the penalty will be.”
Right! After all, you are still the driver. The ADAS is just providing assistance right now.
 
If Tesla are two-faced then how on earth will their owners be able to define/ identify, let alone solve the mother of problems that is afflicting our planet today? Quite a dreamland. Sorry your car got smashed but you knew the risks. I still believe not focusing inward before we look outward, not restoring justice, equity and equal access before reaching for the stars is a denial of our humanity.
 

EVO X

Member
Feb 28, 2021
124
98
NJ
Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been trying to work with Tesla to resolve this issue out of the public domain, but they have been characteristically terrible and honestly don't seem to care. Over the last 3 weeks, I have sent multiple emails, followed up via phone calls, escalated through my local service center, and nobody from Tesla corporate has even emailed or called to say they are looking into this. One of my local service center technicians opened a case with engineering, which she said would take 90 days to review. I find that absurd, especially when Tesla is releasing new versions every 2 weeks. I think it's important for people to be extra cautious about which roads they engage FSD beta on, especially since Tesla seems to be ignoring my report entirely.

View attachment 755700


This incident happened almost 3 weeks ago on Monday, November 22nd at around 6:15 in the evening, just shortly after the sun had set. I was driving my Tesla Model Y on a two-lane rural road and had FSD engaged. The car was still on version 10.4 at the time. It was a clear night, no rain or adverse weather conditions. Everything was going fine, and I had previously used FSD beta on this stretch of road before without a problem. There was some occasional phantom braking, but that had been sort of common with 10.4.

A right banked curve in this two lane road came up with a vehicle coming around the curve the opposite direction. The Model Y slowed slightly and began making the turn properly and without cause for concern. Suddenly, about 40% of the way through the turn, the Model Y straightened the wheel and crossed over the center line into the direct path of the oncoming vehicle. I reacted as quickly as I could, trying to pull the vehicle back into the lane. I really did not have a lot of time to react, so chose to override FSD by turning the steering wheel since my hands were already on the wheel and I felt this would be the fastest way to avoid a front overlap collision with the oncoming vehicle. When I attempted to pull the vehicle back into my lane, I lost control and skidded off into a ditch and through the woods.

I was pretty shaken up and the car was in pieces. I called for a tow, but I live in a pretty rural area and could not find a tow truck driver who would touch a Tesla. I tried moving the car and heard underbody shields and covers rubbing against the moving wheels. I ended up getting out with a utility knife, climbing under the car, and cutting out several shields, wheel well liners, and other plastic bits that were lodged into the wheels. Surprisingly, the car was drivable and I was able to drive it to the body shop.

Right after the accident, I made the mistake of putting it in park and getting out of the vehicle first to check the situation before I hit the dashcam save button. The drive to the body shop was over an hour long, so the footage was overridden. Luckily, I was able to use some forensic file recovery software to recover the footage off the external hard drive I had plugged in.

In the footage, you can see the vehicle leave the lane, and within about 10 frames, I had already begun pulling back into the lane before losing control and skidding off the road. Since Teslacam records at about 36 frames per second, this would mean I reacted within about 360ms of the lane departure. I understand it is my responsibility to pay attention and maintain control of the vehicle, which I agreed to when I enrolled in FSD beta. I was paying attention, but human reaction does not get much faster than this and I am not sure how I could have otherwise avoided this incident. The speed limit on this road is 55mph. I would estimate FSD was probably going about 45-50mph, but have no way to confirm. I think the corrective steering I applied was too sharp given the speed the vehicle was going, and I lost grip with the pavement. On the 40% speed slowed down version of the clip, you can sort of see the back end of the car break loose in the way the front end starts to wiggle as the mailbox makes its way to the left side of the frame.

Surprisingly, I somehow managed to steer this flying car through a mini-forest, avoiding several trees (although I did knock off the driver's side mirror). There is no side panel damage whatsoever. The bumper cover is ruined and the car sustained fairly severe structural/suspension damage, both front and rear suspension components.

Luckily, nobody was hurt (except my poor car). I could not imagine the weight on my conscience if I had been too slow to intervene and ended up striking that oncoming vehicle. Front overlap collisions are some of the most deadly ways to crash a car, and bodily injury would have been very likely.

I have a perfect driving record and have never had an at-fault accident in the over 10 years I have been licensed. The thought of filing an insurance claim and increasing my premiums over this incident makes me sick. I am considering legal action against Tesla, but I'm not going to get into that here. Just wanted to make everyone aware and hyper-vigilant about FSD. I thought I was, but then this happened. I am going to be much more careful about the situations in which I decide to engage it. There is too much at stake, it is not mature enough, and frankly, Tesla's apathy and lack of communication around this incident really concerns me, as both an owner and a road-user.


tl;dr: Be careful with FSD, folks. And if you get into an accident, hit the dashcam save button or honk your horn before you put it in park.



Display of a Tesla car on autopilot mode showing current speed, remaining estimated range, speed limit and presence of vehicles on motorway lanes” by Marco Verch is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
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