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FSD Beta no improvements to highway driving?

Every FSD Beta video I watch shows the system no longer in the FSD beta mode when they get on the highway. I don't know about all of you but in my experience highway driving is far from perfect with the latest version of EAP - the most scary of which is stationary objects and how it handles construction.

Has anyone seen anything different in terms of FSD Beta actually showing improvements while just on the highway compared to standard AP or EAP?
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,754
9,796
Visalia, CA
Every FSD Beta video I watch shows the system no longer in the FSD beta mode when they get on the highway.

My assumption is they are different modules.

It's possible that the highway module gets better too but not because you got the latest FSD beta. That means you don't need the latest FSD beta to see better skills on highways. And that means if non-FSD-Beta people like us got an improved highway skill, FSD Beta people will get it too.

Some say that is not true. FSD beta means new city streets AND highway competencies too. They reason that the user interface may look the same on highways but the codes and the skills are definitely FSD beta and not away as inferior as just plain public released FSD. I doubt that is true because there's no evidence that FSD beta can reliably avoid collisions unless humans do it for them.

Unless some computer programmer is willing to share the secret, your guess is just as good as mine.

I don't know about all of you but in my experience highway driving is far from perfect with the latest version of EAP - the most scary of which is stationary objects and how it handles construction.

It's possible that you have not experienced a stationary object scenario and constructions until now and that make you think the new version is worse.

It has been like that since 2014 AP1 and that's why there have been Autopilot collisions and fatalities.

To fix those problems above, Elon Musk will soon discontinue RADAR and go visual only.

Other non-Tesla like Waymo have proven that you can solve those above problems by adding LIDAR.

Until that will happen, I don't think those above problems will be solved for Tesla at any time soon.

Sure, Tesla will solve that with visuals if you give it some time ("soon"). But will we be still alive to see the result is another issue!
 
This is so wild to me, why not at least get highway driving perfect?

Getting it to work on city streets is much more challenging, and maybe Tesla doesn't want to introduce new issues for highway driving that would discourage beta testers. I assume that when Tesla is ready to release the FSD City Streets code to everyone, meaning a regular software update, not an optional beta, both city and highway driving will be impacted (hopefully in a good way 🙂).

But I'm just speculating, as we all are.
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
6,524
7,933
Snohomish, WA
I don't think we really know at this point as V9 hasn't been released to the early access people. At least not the early access people authorized to "influence" about it.


If Tesla really does switch to all vision in V9 we could very well see positive or negative changes in how well FSD does on the freeway. Like for example one thing I hate about autolane change is sometimes it has a hard time locating which lane a semi is when the semi is 2 lanes away from me. This can sometimes cause the autolane change to fail as it gets confused and thinks its right next to me.
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,754
9,796
Visalia, CA
This is so wild to me, why not at least get highway driving perfect?

No one can solve it unless you add LIDAR on. Tesla says you don't need LIDAR nor RADAR just your super eyes, the cameras.

If you wait for the vision to be perfected, that will be a long time from now. Remember that many cities ban camera facial recognition? Camera does a pretty good job most of the time but sometimes, it got it wrong and wrong people would get false arrests too!

Same with camera driving: It does a pretty good job until it got into accidents sometimes. But unlike law enforcement with facial recognition, drivers are pretty good at recognizing the roads and challenging scenarios so camera driving is not banned.
 
They aren't going to update the highway portion until later. It's a business decision.

They already have it in product and are earning good cash from it. They need to prioritize get FSD beta out into more users because 1) they already promised them this years ago and 2) it's an even bigger potential revenue stream than autopilot.
 

ZsoZso

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Supporting Member
Apr 24, 2014
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Mount-island
Every FSD Beta video I watch shows the system no longer in the FSD beta mode when they get on the highway. I don't know about all of you but in my experience highway driving is far from perfect with the latest version of EAP - the most scary of which is stationary objects and how it handles construction.

Has anyone seen anything different in terms of FSD Beta actually showing improvements while just on the highway compared to standard AP or EAP?

Improvements ? Not really. More like degradation! I have pre-paid for FSD on my Model 3. Yesterday I was driving on a country-side road at about 40mph speed using TACC (not even AP engaged), when we approached an intersection with a side road (the side-road had Stop sign, I had right of way) and there was a building with a "Fudge" sale sign hanging out towards the road, the sign was circular, red base with white letters, from a distance without paying attention to the letters it could have been mistaken for a Stop sign. As we got close to the intersection the car suddenly slammed on the breakes as it thought to have recognized a Stop sign. This new "feature" (stop sign recognition) is an effect from the new FSD beta. The car behind me almost rear-ended me, fortunately, I was quick enough to step on the accelerator to counter the breaking before we collided. The driver behind was very unhappy with me, even though it was not my fault...
 
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No one can solve it unless you add LIDAR on. Tesla says you don't need LIDAR nor RADAR just your super eyes, the cameras.

If you wait for the vision to be perfected, that will be a long time from now. Remember that many cities ban camera facial recognition? Camera does a pretty good job most of the time but sometimes, it got it wrong and wrong people would get false arrests too!

Same with camera driving: It does a pretty good job until it got into accidents sometimes. But unlike law enforcement with facial recognition, drivers are pretty good at recognizing the roads and challenging scenarios so camera driving is not banned.
I think this is the flaw in the whole “well humans drive with just vision “ argument. Until AI progresses to the point where it can replicate the human brain and ALL the nuances associated with driving the vision only approach is pretty dumb to me. In other words Tesla (or any company) is basically saying they can replicate a human driver thus a human brain. Well we (humans) don’t fully understand a brain so is Tesla now dabbling in neurology???!lol!

look, AI has its optimal use cases. I do not believe we are anywhere near one of those AI use cases being using vision to drive a vehicle on public roads with other human drivers. That’s before we even talk about the obviously sub optimal camera placement on current Tesla’s. Go watch a few of the FSD beta videos. What’s appprent to me (even on simple right hand turns no less) is that the car has to creep unnaturally into traffic to make a turn as it simply can’t see left/right cross traffic as well as human who can simply lean forward (and mentaly judge closing speed, driver intentions, etc..). Not even close fan.
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,754
9,796
Visalia, CA
does it still ghost brake under bridges and can't handle twisty roads in the FSD beta?

Phantom brakes happen because of RADAR.

LIDAR should be able to eliminate phantom brakes because it measures objects in 3D. It knows how deep the pothole is, how thin the big piece of flying paper is...

Cameras have the challenge of phantom images that are hard to figure out and may result in phantom brakes.
 

emmz0r

Senior Software Engineer
Jul 12, 2018
1,276
1,111
Norway
Phantom brakes happen because of RADAR.

LIDAR should be able to eliminate phantom brakes because it measures objects in 3D. It knows how deep the pothole is, how thin the big piece of flying paper is...

Cameras have the challenge of phantom images that are hard to figure out and may result in phantom brakes.

I know, but that is not my question. My question is: has country road / highway driving improved? Didn't latest beta have radar disabled, even? Radar doesn't have anything to say in sharp turns either.
Also, no, you don't need LIDAR since you can create a 3D world based on Structure From Motion (SfM) . That's what they have been doing.
 
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Improvements ? Not really. More like degradation! I have pre-paid for FSD on my Model 3. Yesterday I was driving on a country-side road at about 40mph speed using TACC (not even AP engaged), when we approached an intersection with a side road (the side-road had Stop sign, I had right of way) and there was a building with a "Fudge" sale sign hanging out towards the road, the sign was circular, red base with white letters, from a distance without paying attention to the letters it could have been mistaken for a Stop sign. As we got close to the intersection the car suddenly slammed on the breakes as it thought to have recognized a Stop sign. This new "feature" (stop sign recognition) is an effect from the new FSD beta. The car behind me almost rear-ended me, fortunately, I was quick enough to step on the accelerator to counter the breaking before we collided. The driver behind was very unhappy with me, even though it was not my fault...
Is not FSD Beta and new version 9.0 completly different from the one you have 4D vision 360
 
I think this is the flaw in the whole “well humans drive with just vision “ argument. Until AI progresses to the point where it can replicate the human brain and ALL the nuances associated with driving the vision only approach is pretty dumb to me. In other words Tesla (or any company) is basically saying they can replicate a human driver thus a human brain. Well we (humans) don’t fully understand a brain so is Tesla now dabbling in neurology???!lol!

look, AI has its optimal use cases. I do not believe we are anywhere near one of those AI use cases being using vision to drive a vehicle on public roads with other human drivers. That’s before we even talk about the obviously sub optimal camera placement on current Tesla’s. Go watch a few of the FSD beta videos. What’s appprent to me (even on simple right hand turns no less) is that the car has to creep unnaturally into traffic to make a turn as it simply can’t see left/right cross traffic as well as human who can simply lean forward (and mentaly judge closing speed, driver intentions, etc..). Not even close fan.
Yes because actually the FSD beta/autopilot use one camera at time to make a turn not 8 next version beta 9.0 use all cameras vision 4D 360
 
I know, but that is not my question. My question is: has country road / highway driving improved? Didn't latest beta have radar disabled, even? Radar doesn't have anything to say in sharp turns either.
Also, no, you don't need LIDAR since you can create a 3D world based on Structure From Motion (SfM) . That's what they have been doing.
From what I’ve seen, the beta does a pretty good job on twisty roads. No real difference in highway driving. Historically speaking, 2020.28.5 from last summer did a great job on twisty roads. It would slow appropriately for curves, and the car would stay centered in the lane. People complained it was too slow for curves, but it least it stayed in the lane.
 
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Improvements ? Not really. More like degradation! I have pre-paid for FSD on my Model 3. Yesterday I was driving on a country-side road at about 40mph speed using TACC (not even AP engaged), when we approached an intersection with a side road (the side-road had Stop sign, I had right of way) and there was a building with a "Fudge" sale sign hanging out towards the road, the sign was circular, red base with white letters, from a distance without paying attention to the letters it could have been mistaken for a Stop sign. As we got close to the intersection the car suddenly slammed on the breakes as it thought to have recognized a Stop sign. This new "feature" (stop sign recognition) is an effect from the new FSD beta. The car behind me almost rear-ended me, fortunately, I was quick enough to step on the accelerator to counter the breaking before we collided. The driver behind was very unhappy with me, even though it was not my fault...
The car won’t stop for stop signs and traffic lights if you’re using TACC without Autosteer.
 

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