FSD Beta Running Red Lights While Making Right Turn

[jsmay311]

I've observed that FSD Beta consistently runs a red light when making a right turn at a particular intersection in my neighborhood, so I took a (crappy) video to demonstrate it.

It's like the car is treating the right turn lane as though it's an on-ramp with no traffic signal. I suspect this has something to do with the little triangular pedestrian island that separates the right turn lane from the rest of the road and that FSD Beta is confusing this for a slip lane that doesn't require a stop, but I'm pretty certain that a full stop is still required here. (And, relevantly, I've also observed the same (reckless) behavior once at another intersection where it was 1000% clear that a full stop was required by law. I didn't get a video of that one, but I posted about it earlier here and included a Streetview photo.

Anyway... I'm surprised I haven't seen more discussion online about this particular FSD Beta (mis)behavior, so I was wondering if this is a common thing that many others have observed at other similar intersections? Or maybe it's more of a rarity, despite my personal experience?

Map of intersection / route:

Streetview showing intersection / turn lane / traffic signal / stop line:

 

[Dewg]

Your second example you linked to is clearly a controlled right turn lane. Definitely a bug that needs to be fixed. Your example above, if I were driving there I would not stop, just yield to cross traffic. The Birdseye view even shows a white car moving through the right turn while the main lanes are stopped and cross traffic is happening. The sign warns about yielding for pedestrians.

 

[Supcom]

I suspect that the traffic light positioned on the left is the key to the error. Does the car do the same thing at New York and Farnsworth, which is similar? New York and Eola going Westbound has a similar turn lane as well, but the traffic light is on the right side instead of left.

It might be interesting to try both of these to see how the car reacts.

I'd love to test this, but where I live, this style of intersection has yields for the right hand turn instead of traffic lights.

 

[Supcom]

Your second example you linked to is clearly a controlled right turn lane. Definitely a bug that needs to be fixed. Your example above, if I were driving there I would not stop, just yield to cross traffic. The Birdseye view even shows a white car moving through the right turn while the main lanes are stopped and cross traffic is happening. The sign warns about yielding for pedestrians.

The traffic light is a complex one that likely has modes to allow traffic to proceed at times when the straight through traffic is stopped. Right turn an red may also apply, which could explain the white car's position.

 

[Dewg]

The traffic light is a complex one that likely has modes to allow traffic to proceed at times when the straight through traffic is stopped. Right turn an red may also apply, which could explain the white car's position.

I would agree, but his second linked example specifically has signs indicating "Stop Here On Red" with arrows pointing to the line. The pics above don't have any signs.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

To me its clearly a stop on red, and it even has its own light just for that turn.

I know nothing about that intersection so I'd stop on red, and then I'd make sure a right on red was safe.

That being said there is a right on red similar to that on my commute home. Whether I come to full stop on red depends on whether there are pedestrians, and whether its a protected right on red. A protected right on red is when cars are turning left in front of it so I know its safe to do the right without stopping all the way. The majority of people don't stop in this circumstance despite it likely being technically illegal.

 

[Dewg]

The only real answer would be given by a police officer. In Cali, the red light on the left is for visibility (showing people approaching from a distance that the light is red) and controlling thru traffic to the left of it. Notice the linked picture shows a red light on the right side of the right turn lane, indicating it's a controlled right turn.

Here are two examples near me:

In this example, you can see a traffic light on the left of the right turn. This light is for thru traffic (on the left), and does not control right turn traffic:

And this example shows another common right turn, without the visibility signal:

In both examples, drivers must yield to cross traffic and pedestrians. You'll also notice that in my area there typically is not a "stop line", but the crosswalks are used as stop lines where they exist. If there is no crosswalk, then a single stop line is present.

Obviously, each state has different traffic laws, so I'd flag down an officer and ask their advice on such turns.

 

[electric-donut]

I know I'm late to the party, but it is clear that jsmay311's report is a stop on red situation. Why, because there is a solid 12" white line in front of the cross walk. Just like dewg's photos show no such line, hence they are continuous turn lanes. Of course all situations require yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk.

 

[Jane4]

I've observed that FSD Beta consistently runs a red light when making a right turn at a particular intersection in my neighborhood, so I took a (crappy) video to demonstrate it.

It's like the car is treating the right turn lane as though it's an on-ramp with no traffic signal. I suspect this has something to do with the little triangular pedestrian island that separates the right turn lane from the rest of the road and that FSD Beta is confusing this for a slip lane that doesn't require a stop, but I'm pretty certain that a full stop is still required here. (And, relevantly, I've also observed the same (reckless) behavior once at another intersection where it was 1000% clear that a full stop was required by law. I didn't get a video of that one, but I posted about it earlier here and included a Streetview photo.

Anyway... I'm surprised I haven't seen more discussion online about this particular FSD Beta (mis)behavior, so I was wondering if this is a common thing that many others have observed at other similar intersections? Or maybe it's more of a rarity, despite my personal experience?

Map of intersection / route:
View attachment 831391

Streetview showing intersection / turn lane / traffic signal / stop line:
View attachment 831393.

I have had a similar situation with my car at a similar intersection. It just turns right without stopping. But, given what the car is supposed to be able to do, wouldn't it stop if another car came from the left?

 

[2019X]

I just went right on a regular intersection and the car did not stop on red, just slowed for the turn and turned (not a dedicated turn lane but on-ramp).

 

[Dan D.]

I'd like to see how 11.3.2 handles the intersection in OP's video. IMO it should stop at the red because of the thick white stop line.

I'm not sure if this intersection of @Dewg is controlled by the light or not. The paint markings are the same for straight traffic and turning traffic. That seems confusing to me, so I'd probably stop, but it seems ambiguous.

This intersection near to OP's is more clear that it's a stop on red because of the second traffic light on the right. But the paint is the same thick white stop line. There does seem to be some confusion out there if all "slip lanes" are uncontrolled. If there was snow over the lines in OP's intersection then drivers wouldn't really know they had to stop. That's probably why sometimes they add the "Stop here on red" signs.