FSD Beta v11.x

Lookmanobrains · Jan 9, 2022

Does anybody have FSD Beta on a model x or s without the interior camera? I have a 2018 pre raven build model X without the interior camera and have not received the beta. I’ve contacted service and they have told me i don’t need one. But I’ve heard the camera cannot be blocked so I’m wondering if maybe service is just mistaken?

Jackman · Jan 9, 2022

Lookmanobrains said:
Does anybody have FSD Beta on a model x or s without the interior camera? I have a 2018 pre raven build model X without the interior camera and have not received the beta. I’ve contacted service and they have told me i don’t need one. But I’ve heard the camera cannot be blocked so I’m wondering if maybe service is just mistaken?

I have a Dec 2016 MX90D with upgraded hdwe including cameras and no interior camera. I received FSD 10.8 on Dec 30, 2021 and it works perfect, err... well as perfect as 10.8 can.

Mardak · Jan 11, 2022

JulienW said:
Likely it is all hands on deck to get highway "perfected" and Stack integrated with little engineering time for Smart Summon

Replacing production Autopilot with FSD Beta on highway is definitely a high bar. I've used FSD Beta on various multilane highways that are 65mph but have at-grade intersections, and it seems to work fine as conceptually it's "just" higher speed city street driving with less frequent complex interactions. I wonder if Tesla is more blocked on reaching feature parity, e.g., slowing down for emergency vehicles or general highway/interstate design perception, vs fixing up regressions, e.g., don't want false positive pedestrian detection cause a last second swerve.

FSD Beta is more capable than production Autopilot in certain aspects, e.g., smarter lane changes with 360º video instead of panicking for a large truck 2 lanes away as well as being able to bias around stopped vehicles that "block" your lane. So it's not surprising that Tesla wants to bring these capabilities to highway driving.

EVNow · Jan 11, 2022

JulienW said:
Likely it is all hands on deck to get highway "perfected" and Stack integrated with little engineering time for Smart Summon.

"Single Stack" is just a "marketing" slogan with little use (just smoother highway/city handoffs). There is a reason I put single stack at the end.

The real work in 11 are the other things. That is what will actually help FSD move forward ... I don't expect much improvements in 10.x anymore. We have seen over the last 2 months that any improvements are small and sometime lead to regressions. The below platform level changes will hopefully let Tesla achieve a new "maximum".

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial

- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN

- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN

- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)

- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image

- Change from single image perception to surround video

- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Mardak · Jan 11, 2022

EVNow said:
I don't expect much improvements in 10.x anymore

It doesn't seem too unreasonable that FSD Beta 11's "product requirements" were as "simple" as "uprev the remaining predictions (including highway) to the latest neural network architecture." In the mean time, 10.x has gotten improvements to VRU, static object/world, auto-labeling, raw photon and various control behaviors (e.g., creeping, rerouting, accelerating, merging, yielding, biasing).

So if highway regressions truly are holding back the release of 11 to meet that Single Stack "marketing" expectation, potentially some more perception improvements might make it to 10.x where FSD Beta doesn't need to also handle highway driving. I guess we'll see what makes it to 10.9 maybe later this week.

Jay S · Jan 11, 2022

If Mr. Musk was riding with me yesterday, January 8,2021 at 11AM, as my 2019 Model S with the latest Beta Full Self Driving software installed was driving itself from Lompoc California to my home in Solvang (about twenty miles), he would not charge anything for the FSD Option. The weather was perfect, and traffic was light. Also, since the "Christmas" update, my power operated headrests don't work.

I don't want to bore you with all the ways it tried to kill me during a 30-minute drive on city streets, two lane highways, divided four lane highways, a Round-a-bout, ignoring speed limit changes, and a left turn pocket near my home where it was determined to try to remove the left front fender of a huge Semi gravel truck by ramming it with my car's left front fender. My lack of trust prepared me for each event. However, I was not focused enough on the "video" reporting button on my touchscreen to send images. Sorry about that but I was trying to stay alive.

Please don't misunderstand me. I love my Model S, my wife loves her 2018 Model 3 Dual Motor. Both cars have Full FSD. We have Tesla solar panels and a Powerwall. The cars are trouble-free, and Santa Barbara Service is more than Outstanding. But honestly, I don't think Autopilot is quite ready yet for Prime Time.

The only driving that Autopilot seems stable enough to handle is on divided highways of at least two lanes in each direction, having clear lane markings, having no left turn pockets, and a minimum number of on ramps. Except for Phantom Braking, I can drive fairly relaxed with Autopilot under those conditions. That's my experience.
Sincerely,
Jay

Jay S · Jan 11, 2022

Yesterday, January 10,2022, my 2019 Model S, running the Full Self Driving Beta software with installed update 2021.44.30.5, departed at 9:15AM, with me, for the drive from Solvang to Fillmore California via Highway 101 and Highway 126. Traffic was light, the weather was beautiful, windshield and cameras all clean and working. Had four phantom braking incidents before reaching Santa Barbara. Heavy road construction south of Santa Barbara caused Autopilot to attempt to crash into a concrete barricade because it wanted to exit the highway at the Sheffield offramp, which was blocked by a concrete barricade. It tried to stop the car in traffic as it became more confused. I turned off Autopilot and manually drove through the construction area. After passing Carpentaria, I switched Autopilot back on and had four more phantom braking problems before reaching highway 126.

Driving home after dark using Autopilot was frightening. Many phantom braking incidents, problems keeping in the proper driving lane, speed control mishaps, and the automatic headlight high beams repeatedly delayed activating even when no other lights were in sight. I drove the car at the construction areas and repeatedly shut off Autopilot as it misbehaved. Fortunately, traffic was light, and the weather was clear.

Autopilot is becoming more unstable and less reliable with each software update. The 2019 software, which still used the radar unit, could more reliably drive on the local highways than can the newest software. I haven't given up on Autopilot and I haven't any idea about what is going on. However, the problems are making it more stressful to drive on Autopilot than it is to not use it. And, my power operated headrests don't work anymore.

One last comment: on the advice of Tesla Service, I did the camera recalibration last week. Nothing improved from that. I also did the "hard" reboot procedure using the wheel size change and then restore the correct for me 19" wheels. Also, no change.

In every other way I can determine, my Model S appears to be operating perfectly. Smooth, quiet, swift, comfortable (no headrest adjust), and delightful. Seems Crazy to be sharing these experiences?

Jay S · Jan 11, 2022

Forgot to say that my 2019 Model S does not have an interior camera installed anywhere I have been able to locate. Our 2018 Model 3 Dual Motor has one located just above the rear-view mirror. I don't know if it works.

EVNow · Jan 11, 2022

Jay S said:
If Mr. Musk was riding with me yesterday,

Wrong thread.

JulienW · Jan 12, 2022

EVNow said:
Wrong thread.

Here you go: If Mr. Musk riders with me NEXT month.

EVNow · Jan 12, 2022

JulienW said:
Here you go: If Mr. Musk riders with me NEXT month.

Yes, what exactly would we find ?

Anyway, people who look at what is available today with FSD and wondering why it is priced at $12k have never bought the stock of a company before it consistently made GAAP profits

Jay S · Jan 12, 2022

So sorry if I put my comments in the wrong place or Thread. My sincere apologies! I'll try to do better.

EVNow · Jan 12, 2022

Jay S said:
So sorry if I put my comments in the wrong place or Thread. My sincere apologies! I'll try to do better.

Here is the thread to talk about current FSD experiences …

Wiki - MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

Just got the notice that 10.8.1 is available. Maybe the final wave is happening tonight? Nope not the final wave.:( Hoping for today.😬

teslamotorsclub.com

boonedocks · Jan 12, 2022

EVNow said:
Yes, what exactly would we find ?

Anyway, people who look at what is available today with FSD and wondering why it is priced at $12k have never bought the stock of a company before it consistently made GAAP profits

If I was going to put my car out as a robotaxi while I am at work I MIGHT see some value at $10k.

As a family / commuter car the price makes no sense.

Pre-paid 3 time now and with no program to transfer to a new purchase and re-sale add at roughly $3,000 it is a poor financial decision.

If one of us in our household had a disability it might be a consideration.

azred · Jan 12, 2022

Lookmanobrains said:
Does anybody have FSD Beta on a model x or s without the interior camera? I have a 2018 pre raven build model X without the interior camera and have not received the beta. I’ve contacted service and they have told me i don’t need one. But I’ve heard the camera cannot be blocked so I’m wondering if maybe service is just mistaken?

I got it on my 12/2016 S last week but also only have three “free” strikes for inattention vs five on my 3, which of course has an interior camera to add a nag via the camera.

EVNow · Jan 12, 2022

boonedocks said:
If I was going to put my car out as a robotaxi while I am at work I MIGHT see some value at $10k.

As a family / commuter car the price makes no sense.

Pre-paid 3 time now and with no program to transfer to a new purchase and re-sale add at roughly $3,000 it is a poor financial decision.

If one of us in our household had a disability it might be a consideration.

It’s more like buying OTM LEAPs rather than stock. If feature is late and you upgrade you lose the money.

Though, I don’t understand why over the years Tesla didn’t let people transfer FSD to encourage upgrades. Ofcourse now with such large wait times, they don’t have to … but I guess they always thought they were supply constrained.

israndy · Jan 13, 2022

That is an interesting point, at some future date they could tie people to the Tesla Ecosystem by making the $20,000 FSD easily transferrable to their new Tesla.

Mardak · Jan 13, 2022

planetary said:
I can't imagine having to maintain a 98+ score until next month, or whenever v11 ships

Potentially with FSD Beta 11, "Single Stack" is more of a quality requirement as opposed to just a technical requirement (i.e., FSD Beta is better/safer than production Autopilot on highways) and combined with the upcoming FSD price bump up to $12k, this could indicate Tesla believes FSD Beta overall is safe enough to deploy wider.

Maybe Tesla added 97+ scores as part of holiday/10.8 "skipping" a 98+ score step because there isn't really much difference especially for the "eager" audience that clearly tried to stay above average (which the safety score page says "most drivers are expected… 80 or above"). Stats iOS app safety score users before public FSD Beta rollout had nearly 60% of that population with 97+ scores:

Overall, I could see Tesla significantly widening the safety score ranges for FSD Beta if it is indeed much safer with all the improvements in 11.

VValleyEV · Jan 15, 2022

EVNow said:
It’s more like buying OTM LEAPs rather than stock. If feature is late and you upgrade you lose the money.

Though, I don’t understand why over the years Tesla didn’t let people transfer FSD to encourage upgrades. Ofcourse now with such large wait times, they don’t have to … but I guess they always thought they were supply constrained.

I would be ok at just giving me credit for the FSD price I paid against the new higher FSD price of today. I paid $3k for FSD as part of my 2018 S100D purchase. I would be happy if I could apply that $3k to the $12k to add FSD to a 2022 MS. We paid $7k I think to include FSD with my wife’s M3, so that would mean $5k instead of $12k to trade up.

I suppose they want to push everyone into monthly FSD contracts. Maybe as a investor that is the best policy. But I sure don’t like this disincentive to trade up.

EVNow · Jan 15, 2022

VValleyEV said:
I would be ok at just giving me credit for the FSD price I paid against the new higher FSD price of today. I paid $3k for FSD as part of my 2018 S100D purchase. I would be happy if I could apply that $3k to the $12k to add FSD to a 2022 MS. We paid $7k I think to include FSD with my wife’s M3, so that would mean $5k instead of $12k to trade up.

I suppose they want to push everyone into monthly FSD contracts. Maybe as a investor that is the best policy. But I sure don’t like this disincentive to trade up.

With a year long backlog they have little incentive to offer such deals …

Anyway, OT in this thread, so we can take up elsewhere.

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