FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[jebinc]

At this point, I think it's obvious that 11.4.1 is dead. Perhaps we will see 11.4.2 this weekend, but the lack of additions to 11.4.1 this week is pretty telling.

Sent off to the junk heap, it seems.

 

[3rror]

My M3 is on 2023.2.12
It wants me to update to 2023.12.5.3
I want FSD(b)
What should be my strategy at the moment?

I am the same as you. I keep refusing the update. Don’t update until there is a clear path for FSD(b). There is a path now (2023.7.5 FSD 11.4.1), but appears the latest FSD build is paused and hasn’t gone wide yet. Maybe there will be a 11.4.2 or so soon, but no way of knowing for sure. The only thing that is known is that you shouldn’t update if you want FSD(b), or at least until Tesla merges the stack so all Tesla’s run the same base software.

 

[JulienW]

Chuck shows some BAD behavior on narrow (and even not so narrow) roads. Keeps stopping for oncoming cars. Odd that it is not highlighting them as Blue though. Definitely need a 11.4.2 update.

 

[scottf200]

Chuck shows some BAD behavior on narrow (and even not so narrow) roads. Keeps stopping for oncoming cars. Odd that it is not highlighting them as Blue though. Definitely need a 11.4.2 update.

Saw it in above video at about 5:05

Ditto BAD behavior on two lane road in this one:

 

[kabin]

You just can't make this stuff up. This was a few months back but perpetually apropos.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1659245442813526025

 

[kabin]

Sent off to the junk heap, it seems.

Off to the 'fake it' heap it goes.

 

[jebinc]

You just can't make this stuff up. This was a few months back but perpetually apropos.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1659245442813526025

Shill with a capital S.

 

[EVNow]

You just can't make this stuff up. This was a few months back but perpetually apropos.

Discussed in Feb when the article came out. Nothing to do with V 11.

 

[PR0FESSOR]

Ugh…

I am at .086 here in rural NC. Fuel is around $3.20 per gallon here. I do not miss living on the west coast.

Joe

Hahahahaha
< $0.10 per kWh electric rates?!?

I'm at $0.38 per kWh. That's just over $30 to fill "the tank". Still better than $80 to fill a 16 gallon tank at $5/gallon.

 

[PVia]

I am the same as you. I keep refusing the update. Don’t update until there is a clear path for FSD(b). There is a path now (2023.7.5 FSD 11.4.1), but appears the latest FSD build is paused and hasn’t gone wide yet. Maybe there will be a 11.4.2 or so soon, but no way of knowing for sure. The only thing that is known is that you shouldn’t update if you want FSD(b), or at least until Tesla merges the stack so all Tesla’s run the same base software.

Yep, I keep refusing and turning wifi off when I park at home...
I just wanted to see what was happening because I haven't been checking in here every day...it's futile and a waste of time to wade through all the complainers.

 

[clydeiii]

You're exactly correct, so there is no meaningful impact with the current design to Tesla profitability as they move to more affordable cars. The more affordable the car, the less affordable FSD is to that owner so less take rate.

The take rate will scale with the price (price/demand) and unless robotaxi's happen, there will be no meaningful step change to the stock price like Elon mentioned.

Just like ChatGPT, it creates a lot of buzz but creates little value to most consumers.

There's tremendous value in ChatGPT-4, especially considering it costs only $20/mo. I pay the same for Netflix and all it lets me do is watch dumb tv like Love is Blind.

Paying $200/mo to have your car drive you most places seems comparable, and if I ever sell my current Model 3 with FSD purchased outright, I'd absolutely pay the subscription cost.

 

[clydeiii]

Not only does the FSDj require a driver but it also requires more supervision than regular manual driving.

Not for me. Also strange phrasing...when you drive the car yourself you aren't supervising anything, you're driving. I find the act of supervising FSDb less stressful than the act of driving, but everyone is different.

 

[Ramphex]

Not for me. Also strange phrasing...when you drive the car yourself you aren't supervising anything, you're driving. I find the act of supervising FSDb less stressful than the act of driving, but everyone is different.

That’s exactly my point. I don’t have to supervise myself driving, it’s just natural. Having to supervise software, doing who knows what, is more work. The day it can drive places without you being forced by two methods to supervise it, is the day it’ll be less work/stress.

But it’s all a matter of opinion so there’s nothing to debate here.

 

[sleepydoc]

I mean, I'm not suggesting Robotaxi tomorrow... (or ever with HW3)- but we can at least see actual, very significant, progress between the two videos

THAT said, the fact it's 4 years later from the "real" 0 disengagement video and they're still "eh, maybe next year" away from actually considering deploying anything at that operating level to actual customers is... not great.

FWIW, I drove to work and back then to a meeting 20 min away and back with no interventions today.

 

[clydeiii]

That’s exactly my point. I don’t have to supervise myself driving, it’s just natural. Having to supervise software, doing who knows what, is more work. The day it can drive places without you being forced by two methods to supervise it, is the day it’ll be less work/stress.

But it’s all a matter of opinion so there’s nothing to debate here.

You just need to practice a bit! Been doing 99% AP/ FSD for years now, it has gotten very easy to supervise it.

 

[Pdubs]

Not for me. Also strange phrasing...when you drive the car yourself you aren't supervising anything, you're driving. I find the act of supervising FSDb less stressful than the act of driving, but everyone is different.

I don’t understand.

 

[Pdubs]

You just need to practice a bit! Been doing 99% AP/ FSD for years now, it has gotten very easy to supervise it.

Practice @Ramphex practice.

 

[Ramphex]

You just need to practice a bit! Been doing 99% AP/ FSD for years now, it has gotten very easy to supervise it.

It drives like *sugar*. There’s nothing for me to practice. I’ve posted videos here before. No matter what I practice, it won’t change how the code runs on my refresh model S.

 

[Tronguy]

That’s exactly my point. I don’t have to supervise myself driving, it’s just natural. Having to supervise software, doing who knows what, is more work. The day it can drive places without you being forced by two methods to supervise it, is the day it’ll be less work/stress.

But it’s all a matter of opinion so there’s nothing to debate here.

Actually.. When running around in FSD-b, while I'm theoretically "double quotes with fingers" driving the car, what I'm really doing is supervising the environment. I can look out the window at cars a mile or two up, or approaching from the rear, or doing zany things on the side, and so forth and so on. I don't have to concentrate on keeping the car in-lane and at the right speed with respect to the cars around me. Instead, I can use superior brain power to look out for the crazies.

And that doesn't take a lot of brain horsepower to do. As a result, I generally end up where I'm going more relaxed, especially when we're talking about limited access highway driving. Local roads.. now, that can be a bit stressful, since FSD-b makes more than its fair share of mistakes, particularly on turns. But the bit about looking for the crazies still holds.

 

[Ramphex]

Actually.. When running around in FSD-b, while I'm theoretically "double quotes with fingers" driving the car, what I'm really doing is supervising the environment. I can look out the window at cars a mile or two up, or approaching from the rear, or doing zany things on the side, and so forth and so on. I don't have to concentrate on keeping the car in-lane and at the right speed with respect to the cars around me. Instead, I can use superior brain power to look out for the crazies.

And that doesn't take a lot of brain horsepower to do. As a result, I generally end up where I'm going more relaxed, especially when we're talking about limited access highway driving. Local roads.. now, that can be a bit stressful, since FSD-b makes more than its fair share of mistakes, particularly on turns. But the bit about looking for the crazies still holds.

You must not have a refresh model S. It drives like complete *sugar* so you have to supervise it more than just relaxing and watching the butterflies around you