FSD Beta v11.x

Tronguy · May 18, 2023

Ramphex said:
You must not have a refresh model S. It drives like complete *sugar* so you have to supervise it more than just relaxing and watching the butterflies around you

It's a 2018 M3 with the (refreshed from 2.5) 3.0 computer, LR, RWD. It has it's ugly bits and the wheel does jerk in the inappropriate moments. And, no, I'm not watching butterflies - I'm watching other cars. That being the point.

Ramphex · May 18, 2023

Come drive my refresh S with FSD and tell me if you find it relaxing

kabin · May 18, 2023

EVNow said:
Discussed in Feb when the article came out. Nothing to do with V 11.

A thousand pardons sir. It won't happen again.

uscbucsfan · May 18, 2023

Ramphex said:
Come drive my refresh S with FSD and tell me if you find it relaxing

It's pretty good on my 22 MS

uscbucsfan · May 18, 2023

uscbucsfan said:
It's pretty good on my 22 MS

I'll add it's not Whole Mars bullshit good.

Knightshade · May 18, 2023

sleepydoc said:
FWIW, I drove to work and back then to a meeting 20 min away and back with no interventions today.

Sure- I've mentioned any number of 0 intervention drives I've had too-- generally when there's little to no traffic, and/or I'm mostly on simple or one-way-each-way roads.

When there's not much traffic, but on multi-lane roads, I can usually just let it do the weird dive into the wrong lane, or change into then shortly back out of, the wrong lane, or a UPL with nobody coming, or take way too long to handle an intersection because it stops too far back, then takes too long to creep, then takes too long to finally go... because nobody else is around to be annoyed or potentially be dangerous about it.

But add much traffic and the same route now is going to have interventions. Sometimes courtesy ones (to not upset other drivers) and sometimes safety ones (not letting it drive into a UPL with oncoming traffic dangerously close, or finally after taking to long to start a right at an intersection turning when there's oncoming traffic too close.

Also this assumes clear weather... soon as there's much about light rain we get degradation of capabilities too.

All of which tells me with enough additional development they'll eventually be able to roll out a quite capable L2 ADAS system that works in urban environments.

But instills very little faith they're remotely near, nor have the HW able to ever achieve, any widespread L4 system.

I still have hopes of L3 highway-only- which is all I really ever bought FSD hoping to get back in 2018 (though I expected it'd be here a lot sooner).

jebinc · May 18, 2023

Ramphex said:
You must not have a refresh model S. It drives like complete *sugar* so you have to supervise it more than just relaxing and watching the butterflies around you

My refreshed S Plaid drives more like a junk truck when FSDj is driving, or rather, trying to drive.

jebinc · May 18, 2023

uscbucsfan said:
I'll add it's not Whole Mars bullshit good.

Man, that Shill’s last apologist video was over the top.

LowlyOilBurner · May 18, 2023

Wow.

JulienW said:
Chuck shows some BAD behavior on narrow (and even not so narrow) roads. Keeps stopping for oncoming cars. Odd that it is not highlighting them as Blue though. Definitely need a 11.4.2 update.

Wow. I thought my road I live on is narrow. The first 5 or so minutes of proved me wrong.

So, my backwoods, unmarked road I live on is definitely wider than what’s shown in the first five minutes of Chucks video. I have had the same behavior since 10.3. There’s a hair pin turn basically in front of my house. The other day, my neighbor was going through the apex of that turn, surprisingly, my car hugged the right of the lane, and we both made it through with no issues. Might have just been a fluke. Other parts of my road, oncoming traffic causes my car to slow to a crawl while they pass. Very unconventional.
This should be fixed, big time.

Funny though, like two miles down from my house there is another unmarked road, but much wider. Car handles this perfectly, with or without oncoming traffic. Definitely an issue with the actual width of the said lane.

JohnB007 · May 18, 2023

I think the key is to use FSD when the situation is appropriate. Those who live in big cities with complex traffic will have less opportunities for sure.

During about 90-95% of the time when my FSD is on, I am more relaxed, and less tiring by miles.

In fact, during long drives, I would miss FSD terribly if it was taken away from me.

sleepydoc · May 18, 2023

Knightshade said:
Sure- I've mentioned any number of 0 intervention drives I've had too-- generally when there's little to no traffic, and/or I'm mostly on simple or one-way-each-way roads.

When there's not much traffic, but on multi-lane roads, I can usually just let it do the weird dive into the wrong lane, or change into then shortly back out of, the wrong lane, or a UPL with nobody coming, or take way too long to handle an intersection because it stops too far back, then takes too long to creep, then takes too long to finally go... because nobody else is around to be annoyed or potentially be dangerous about it.

But add much traffic and the same route now is going to have interventions. Sometimes courtesy ones (to not upset other drivers) and sometimes safety ones (not letting it drive into a UPL with oncoming traffic dangerously close, or finally after taking to long to start a right at an intersection turning when there's oncoming traffic too close.

Also this assumes clear weather... soon as there's much about light rain we get degradation of capabilities too.

All of which tells me with enough additional development they'll eventually be able to roll out a quite capable L2 ADAS system that works in urban environments.

But instills very little faith they're remotely near, nor have the HW able to ever achieve, any widespread L4 system.

I still have hopes of L3 highway-only- which is all I really ever bought FSD hoping to get back in 2018 (though I expected it'd be here a lot sooner).

2 of the trips were midday and the final trip was at 5 PM with rush hour traffic.

Knightshade · May 18, 2023

sleepydoc said:
2 of the trips were midday and the final trip was at 5 PM with rush hour traffic.

...ok, and?

The plural of anecdote is not data of course- but we do have much more broadly sourced data than "one guy who took a couple of drives" showing interventions remain quite common for fsdb, with the rate not remotely approaching anything where a sane business would consider taking any responsibility for the driving task.

151 testers across 45 states currently tracked here:

Home

FSDBeta Community Tracker

sites.google.com

Current version remains barely below 100 miles between critical interventions needed, below 50% for percent of drives with no disengagement needed, and hasn't even reached having a single 9 directly to the left of the decimal point (let alone a march of them after it) for percent of drives completed without a safety critical disengagement needed.

EVNow · May 18, 2023

Knightshade said:
Current version remains barely below 100 miles between critical interventions needed, below 50% for percent of drives with no disengagement needed…

I’m a glass half full kind of a guy .. still surprised so many are intervention free drives. Some people here make it seem l8ke FSD can’t drive more than a mile with disengagement.

Mardak · May 18, 2023

Remotely updated route data has resulted in some improved lane selection still on FSD Beta 11.3.6 and NA-2022.28-14046 (not the new NA-2022.44-14515) navigation data compared to even last week, but looks like it might not yet be able to override overfitting of lane guidance neural networks where it ignores the visible double yellow lines and mispredicts white lines to cross:

The left side shows TACC seemingly using some other neural network not relying on lane guidance to correctly predict the adjacent double yellow lines. The right side shows FSD Beta wanting to cross over the actual double yellow lines shown in left repeater view to where oncoming traffic temporarily drives during this construction phase. At least when there's cars actively driving towards us, it knows there's not enough space to switch, but once they pass, I need to disengage before it switches into what used to be a left-turn lane.

scottf200 · May 18, 2023

Mardak said:
...
The left side shows TACC seemingly using some other neural network not relying on lane guidance to correctly predict the adjacent double yellow lines. The right side shows FSD Beta wanting to cross over the actual double yellow lines shown in left repeater view to where oncoming traffic temporarily drives during this construction phase. At least when there's cars actively driving towards us, it knows there's not enough space to switch, but once they pass, I need to disengage before it switches into what used to be a left-turn lane.

Props for the description plus the excellent images including the left repeater view.

Aside: GreenTheOnly has mentioned that there can be map updates without the NA-20YY.WW-##### full OTAs. Maybe that is what you were implying.

isolator · May 18, 2023

PR0FESSOR said:
Ugh…

I am at .086 here in rural NC. Fuel is around $3.20 per gallon here. I do not miss living on the west coast.

Joe

I live in PNW (west coast) and have .0816. Current Electric and Water Rates - Clark Public Utilities. I’m sure there are transmission fees on top of that, but still pretty cheap here.

JulienW · May 19, 2023

sleepydoc said:
FWIW, I drove to work and back then to a meeting 20 min away and back with no interventions today.

Must be burb's to burb's. Also in ATL a 20 minute drive might only be 1¾ miles away. That is not too impressive for 0 interventions.

Porkalletta · May 19, 2023

I wonder if others are finding this in their highway drives. Usually when driving FSDj my car stays very true to the map and follows the highway. Yesterday, it followed the car in front of me going off the exit ramp where I did not want to go. Anyone else?

uscbucsfan · May 19, 2023

Porkalletta said:
I wonder if others are finding this in their highway drives. Usually when driving FSDj my car stays very true to the map and follows the highway. Yesterday, it followed the car in front of me going off the exit ramp where I did not want to go. Anyone else?

I've never seen that. I've had it miss an exit because it couldn't or just didn't get over, but it's never followed another car on a bad route.

The map is updated every 2 min when driving, maybe the car was re-routing and it didn't display on your navigation.

sleepydoc · May 19, 2023

JulienW said:
Must be burb's to burb's. Also in ATL a 20 minute drive might only be 1¾ miles away. That is not too impressive for 0 interventions.

Yeah - I interventions when all the car has do do is stand still in gridlock isn’t saying much!

Yes, it was ‘burb to burb,’ about 40 miles total.

Knightshade said:
...ok, and?

The plural of anecdote is not data of course- but we do have much more broadly sourced data than "one guy who took a couple of drives" showing interventions remain quite common for fsdb, with the rate not remotely approaching anything where a sane business would consider taking any responsibility for the driving task.

And you claimed to care about the traffic in your previous comment but clearly you were just running off at the mouth again.

Also, the pleural of anecdote actually is data.

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