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FSD Beta V9 & children in car

firsttruck

Member
Sep 30, 2020
75
87
us
Something that has been bother me for a while is FSD drivers who make videos with children in the vehicle.

Even though driver is monitoring the car and might take over there is inherently a delay in response that in a split second situation that could make difference between there being an accident.

Another thing is the child might require attention or distract the driver just when FSD Beta makes a mistake and the human driver monitoring beta misses clues or is too slow to react.


I have seen some with a father & toddler (or infant) and other similar situations.
I stop watching any video where I find children are passengers in beta driven cars.

I consider driving a car with Beta software child endangerment.

Children can also not give consent.

Another related situation is when both spouses (or both caregivers) of children are in a beta driven vehicle. Even if children are not in car if there was an serious accident the children would lose all their primary caregivers.

I think Tesla should explicitly warn Tesla owners to not have children in car when FSD beta is being used.

I want FSD to be tested & become a finished product as soon as possible.

Another thing from Tesla business perspective is the huge bad publicity Tesla would get if there was a bad accident with a FSD Beta car that had children in the car.
 

Daniel in SD

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2018
6,886
9,765
San Diego
Something that has been bother me for a while is FSD drivers who make videos with children in the vehicle.

Even though driver is monitoring the car and might take over there is inherently a delay in response that in a split second situation that could make difference between there being an accident.

Another thing is the child might require attention or distract the driver just when FSD Beta makes a mistake and the human driver monitoring beta misses clues or is too slow to react.


I have seen some with a father & toddler (or infant) and other similar situations.
I stop watching any video where I find children are passengers in beta driven cars.

I consider driving a car with Beta software child endangerment.

Children can also not give consent.

Another related situation is when both spouses (or both caregivers) of children are in a beta driven vehicle. Even if children are not in car if there was an serious accident the children would lose all their primary caregivers.

I think Tesla should explicitly warn Tesla owners to not have children in car when FSD beta is being used.

I want FSD to be tested & become a finished product as soon as possible.

Another thing from Tesla business perspective is the huge bad publicity Tesla would get if there was a bad accident with a FSD Beta car that had children in the car.
If a child is inside the car they're likely much safer than outside the car where they could be hit by someone testing beta FSD.
Children properly belted or in a car seat are very safe when in a Tesla (or really any modern car).
 

TresLA

Member
Jul 15, 2018
80
71
L.A.
The concern is understandable, but in the bigger picture I don't see how having children in the car (or both parents of a non-present child) is any riskier or responsibility of Tesla's. The what if's you mention are just as possible (and do happen) in any car with or without ADAS features. Generally, I'd say of the Tesla FSD beta tester videos I've seen, they are more alert and cautious than the normal driver, hence why we haven't had any FSD beta accidents yet.

For any FSD beta driver that isn't cautious enough (i.e. - those with in-cabin cameras and haven't been safe enough in Tesla's perspective), Tesla has pulled FSD beta from their cars. Those same drivers would be the high risk factor even in "human" driven vehicles.

Finally, the concern you mention can be extended to who knows where, e.g. - what about elderly parents in the car? Dogs? Others that can't "give consent"? Should Tesla only require single, non-married, non-child bearing beta testers? What about a married spouse whose partner has health issues and can't work full-time (has dependents)? The list goes on depending on how one judges morality.
 
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masterxel

Member
Oct 30, 2020
45
74
CA
As a child, being dragged around on road trips and joyrides and trips to the store was just the worst. One time my dad even almost drove us off a cliff. Better to keep children locked up indoors and on the internet where they belong, regardless of whether FSD is enabled!

edit: and I did not give consent... truly horrible
 

glide

Active Member
Jun 6, 2018
3,683
3,844
USA
OP has *got* to be from California…

Let us know how you feel about children riding on the back of a parents bicycle through the city streets. Would love to hear that take.
 
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qdeathstar

Completely Serious
May 17, 2019
3,440
2,456
VB
Something that has been bother me for a while is FSD drivers who make videos with children in the vehicle.

Even though driver is monitoring the car and might take over there is inherently a delay in response that in a split second situation that could make difference between there being an accident.

Another thing is the child might require attention or distract the driver just when FSD Beta makes a mistake and the human driver monitoring beta misses clues or is too slow to react.


I have seen some with a father & toddler (or infant) and other similar situations.
I stop watching any video where I find children are passengers in beta driven cars.

I consider driving a car with Beta software child endangerment.

Children can also not give consent.

Another related situation is when both spouses (or both caregivers) of children are in a beta driven vehicle. Even if children are not in car if there was an serious accident the children would lose all their primary caregivers.

I think Tesla should explicitly warn Tesla owners to not have children in car when FSD beta is being used.

I want FSD to be tested & become a finished product as soon as possible.

Another thing from Tesla business perspective is the huge bad publicity Tesla would get if there was a bad accident with a FSD Beta car that had children in the car.
Well, ok. They aren’t your kids. Problem solved.
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
5,626
6,398
Snohomish, WA
I think Tesla should explicitly warn Tesla owners to not have children in car when FSD beta is being used.

Do we really want the companies we buy products from to treat us like idiots?

The release notes are already pretty blatant about how to can do the worst thing at the absolutely worst moment. If the parent chooses to ignore that then it's on them.
 

NHK X

Member
Nov 18, 2017
847
693
PNW
There’s plenty more parents hurtling down the freeway with zero ADAS fiddling on their phones. It’s all an individual choice on what your calculus of risk is. No need to get on a moral high ground.
 
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S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
5,626
6,398
Snohomish, WA
The general release FSD features are beta too, so I assume the OP doesn’t think you should use those either with kids (or pets) in the car.

That's just Elon misuse of the beta tag.

Maybe a better way of looking at it would be to look at it from unstable, and stable.

Essentially any L2 ADAS feature from any car manufacture is susceptible to doing the wrong thing because the technology isn't perfect. In fact in the early days rumor has it that MB dumbed down their L2 lane steering to make sure the driver didn't get complacent.

I would list them like this
  • AEB - Stable Release, and safe to use for all passenger types
  • FCW - Stable Release, and safe to use for all passenger types. It is prone to false warnings on a fairly consistent basis
  • TACC - Stable, and safe to use unless your spouse is really picky about smoothness
  • AP - Stable, and safe to use for all passenger types where TACC can be used. Must remain vigilant as it doesn't always react fast to cut-ins, pot-holes, and fallen rocks in the road.
  • Smart Summon - Unstable pile of absolute garbage. Has failed every single test I've thrown at it. That's not surprising as the feature was pre-mature.
  • NoA - Unstable, and recommend not to use with passengers.
  • Traffic Light/Sign Response - Unstable, and uncomplete. But, I don't see any reason not to use it with passengers. It does increase the possibility of phantom braking.
  • FSD Beta - This is so beta its a pre-release version. I personally wouldn't use it with anyone who would distract me. I appreciate the work of the Early Access people in testing it out. Especially those that test the cases where it doesn't always perform well.
 

Terminator857

Member
Aug 5, 2019
273
292
Ca
Something that has been bother me for a while is FSD drivers who make videos with children in the vehicle.
This is about risk assessment. What if the stats showed that drivers are safer with FSD beta then those that are not?
Similar to use of autopilot is claimed by Tesla to be safer than not using it.
Here are your arguments applied to autopilot beta: Tesla Drivers Are Paying Big Bucks to Test Flawed Self-Driving Software
Software this complicated is never going to be perfect. Software this complicated isn't going to finished within the next decade.
When there is a bad accident, people should temper their thoughts with how many accidents have been prevented with FSD beta, for example from preventing people from running stop lights and stop signs.
 
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