mspisars
Active Member
Do you always read only a portion that suits your narrative?
Go on, keep reading to the end.
Go on, keep reading to the end.
If you're talking about the blanket disclaimer that all this functionality will roll out over time, that's irrelevant.
What's relevant is whether the definition of FSD currently for sale is functionally the same as what was sold to early buyers. Even if it takes time to get there, the definition of the finish line has changed. I'm sorry if you can't see that.
I've posted this before but this level of FSD while not L5 or fitting any of the existing definitions would still make Tesla a boatload of money and be very helpful to many owners. I like many others don't care about robotaxi.
Lets assume for a minute that I have to:
1) pay close attention for the first minute after I set the destination. Ensures FSD hardware is working and my entered destination is good..
2) the last minute when I'm arriving at my destination so I can drive into complex parking lot areas as needed
3) during the drive when FSD runs into an edge case like a closed road or police redirecting traffic. In none of these cases would I need to take over immediately just an alert to take over within a minute rather then immediately.
And what do I get for this?
Read, text message, browse or watch video. (i.e. Netflix). The value would be enormous and waiting for Level 5 without a driver doesn't have to be the end all so many owners are fixated on. And I dare say they are minority. Tesla's revenue upside in this scenario is very significant and would be a major advantage at least in the near term over other car makers.
And this seems doable as well.
Lets assume for a minute that I have to:
1) pay close attention for the first minute after I set the destination. Ensures FSD hardware is working and my entered destination is good..
2) the last minute when I'm arriving at my destination so I can drive into complex parking lot areas as needed
3) during the drive when FSD runs into an edge case like a closed road or police redirecting traffic. In none of these cases would I need to take over immediately just an alert to take over within a minute rather then immediately.
And what do I get for this?
Read, text message, browse or watch video. (i.e. Netflix). The value would be enormous and waiting for Level 5 without a driver doesn't have to be the end all so many owners are fixated on. And I dare say they are minority. Tesla's revenue upside in this scenario is very significant and would be a major advantage at least in the near term over other car makers.
And this seems doable as well.
I agree with you entirely. Although I just made the point that the current FSD definition is not the original FSD definition, I'll be more than happy with my FSD purchase if they just get it to the functionality that you describe.
Seriously.
I saw the headlines over the weekend but just watched the video. Holy crap. Any distraction could have had him rolling into oncoming traffic during one of those bad turns. Even while "paying attention" Chuck could have been distracted by a noise or something that caused his attention to shift and the car would have been free to go on its own. I'm still actually kind of in shock.Yeah, that'd be basically Level 3 and would be enormous strides in the right direction.
mspisars
Active Member
Uhm, it is not a blanket disclaimer. Just because you don't like the information in the paragraph does not mean it does not apply to you!
What are the features?
Luckily they defined what "these features" are:
Autopilot
All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver.
www.tesla.com
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Luckily they defined what "these features" are:
Autopilot
All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver.
The old AP page doesn't have the "As these self-driving capabilities are introduced, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.".
It actually said EAP (which turned out to be NOP) will be complete December 2016.
We know how that turned out.
mspisars
Active Member
That is not true!
I specifically included both screenshots from 2016 and 2021
Here is 2016 again for you, since you love to make up stuff!
Here is the Internet Archive link for the 2016 page: Autopilot
They even bolded for focus the part about software validation and reg approval.
But then they went into more detail with "each element of the functionality" meaning it will not be a big bang release.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
@mspipars I'm very confused, the recent one talks about "the future use of these features without supervision," whereas the original as you have posted makes no mention that any supervision will be required one the trip is initiated. That seems like the key difference to me, and it's what I have seen people talk about as the key difference in the promise here. 2016 -> no supervision requirement. 2021-> future use without supervision is predicated on a lot of stuff and clearly not guaranteed. There are other differences but that's the central one.
What am I missing? Please note I am only referencing your two screen captures here, I have not bothered to dig back your other links to pull up any additional verbiage that may have existed in 2016 (but my understanding based on other analyses is that there weren't any caveats).
What am I missing? Please note I am only referencing your two screen captures here, I have not bothered to dig back your other links to pull up any additional verbiage that may have existed in 2016 (but my understanding based on other analyses is that there weren't any caveats).
That was atrocious.
Utterly laughable to think this will be L5 by year’s end
It won’t be even L4
It's like the AI has multiple personalities. One is too hesitant and possibly semi-blind. He says "I don't know if it's safe to go, I really can't tell"
Another is reckless and foolhardy, but basing its decision entirely off the first guy. It says "You said you saw an opening, so I'll just go then." The first one goes "I said I wasn't sure..."
They fight a bit over the wheel and accelerator, the car sputters forward towards traffic. Usually by this point it's no longer safe and Chuck & other FSD drivers have to take over.
I really don't see why it's so difficult. Either it is safe to go, in which case go, or it isn't safe (or you're not sure), in which case don't go. FSD Beta doesn't seem to know if it's safe and either doesn't go when it is safe or goes when it isn't. If there is enough time (ie: open road) then it is just fine. Add a little traffic and it can't do it safely.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Just for the heck of it here is an on topic post.
I'd love to understand what's different between this underground situation and coming up to a similar situation 'outdoors'. (ie may be a high wall directly ahead at a T Junction.)Just for the heck of it here is an on topic post.
May be it is an example of how literal NN's are and from our (human) perspective it's not always evident what makes one scenario entirely different from another.
Like what did it think the elevator door was?
mspisars
Active Member
They do place a large emphasis on the software validation in the original 2016 text... and both point to a piecemeal release of functionality to the fleet.
The fact that it is a piecemeal release of functionality precludes it from being a full-self driving car immediately - and so will require supervision.
The change to the current verbiage was made in 2019 after Tesla Autonomy Day.
I guess when they announce the HW3 computer they decided to also clarify the wording.?
To me, the spirit of both texts (2016 and today) is the same/similar, but the current text is more clear.
The Waymo Lidar route vs Tesla Vision route reminds me of the NASA booster fishing recovery method vs SpaceX propulsive landing method.
When SpaceX was failing over and over with their landing attempts, many people were saying “SpaceX should give up. We already can recover boosters”. It “kinda” worked after lots of refurbishment from being in the ocean. This went on for years. And boy did the naysayers keep pounding that podium that it was a waste of time, money and it won’t work. SpaceX landings are now the norm and is an event when it doesn’t land. SpaceX leapfrogged the NASA method. The naysayers were right....until they weren’t.
I see the same thing happening with Autopilot. Right now Tesla is behind Waymo. I believe that will not always be the case. It is taking a while but this is certainly a difficult problem.
When SpaceX was failing over and over with their landing attempts, many people were saying “SpaceX should give up. We already can recover boosters”. It “kinda” worked after lots of refurbishment from being in the ocean. This went on for years. And boy did the naysayers keep pounding that podium that it was a waste of time, money and it won’t work. SpaceX landings are now the norm and is an event when it doesn’t land. SpaceX leapfrogged the NASA method. The naysayers were right....until they weren’t.
I see the same thing happening with Autopilot. Right now Tesla is behind Waymo. I believe that will not always be the case. It is taking a while but this is certainly a difficult problem.
Chazman92
Member
#FSDBeta 8.2 - 2021.4.11.1 - 4K Memorial Park Round Trip with Commentary https://youtu.be/X0fpQ8XEAJA
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