FSD Beta Videos (and questions for FSD Beta drivers)

[AlanSubie4Life]

Yea i just don't know that in an emergency, you'd be quick thinking enough to reach for the stalk. Slamming the brakes is the most intuitive way to save yourself in an emergency. But anyway, i dunno...doesn't seem like a very intelligent option, but maybe an FSD "pro" could get used to it

Slamming on the brakes in an emergency would be fine. Why would you need to disengage? You can still steer and brake and accelerate. You definitely wouldn't go for the stalk! As mentioned above, if ABS engages, that can disable it.

I guess I'm not understanding the problem here. It seems like having FSD still on after you come to a halt isn't that big a deal and there are plenty of special conditions you could add to disable it in certain scenarios.

The idea is to greatly expand the range of scenarios where you can just drive the car properly, without disengaging.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Quick video of my first drive with 10.69.2 (4 minutes). Probably my last 10.69.2 video.

A few notes: Marked speed limit of 45mph is unenforceable. Also, no one goes that speed (the reason it is unenforceable). CA law FTW.

Four reports (should have been 5), 2 interventions, 1 disengagement, for a 2-mile drive with 4 turns.

The run up to the stop sign actually is substantially improved from 10.69.1.1. Previously it would slow much earlier so maybe this is better now - will have to check more cases. It's possible I was just still pressing the accelerator, I lose track. Overall smoothness is TBD.

When I said I "hadn't looked" to the right on the ULT, you can hear of course from the audio (you can hear which direction I am speaking) that I had looked ~three times. I just meant that I hadn't made the final check to the right before the car started going. The creep felt right on this particular attempt.

When I said it was rush hour...it was relatively quiet...it's rarely all that busy at this turn. You have to negotiate traffic but usually not a long wait.

Interesting at the final disengagement that it lost track of the cyclist behind the SUV (it did see her beforehand but no subsequent prediction). Would have been a good test to have me go straight and her not stop (probably would have been fine)!

Overall I'd say quite a bit better than 10.12 for me, and we'll see what the longer drives bring this week, and see whether any of the polish made it to my drives in 10.69.2 which wasn't there in 10.69.1.1.

More commentary here.

 

[Dan D.]

Not too many cars on the roads in Detroit so FSD Beta is free to meander. Interesting, that gives an excuse for poor driving; it takes some corners and merges badly but 'that was ok because nobody was there so it was safe' - I paraphrase. I guess everything is safe and fine if there is nobody around.

He gets two disengagements right after the other with a construction zone but he just disregards one. "Second disengagement...I'm just gonna count one disengagement there, I won't count the second one". Ok. 1+1=1 then.

Failures for trying to go down a closed road , do not enter road , non-street , tight construction zone , hits a bunch of speedbumps hard. Right after he says "the car can see more" it shows a phantom bike behind where none exists.

"Going off way to the left, I almost got concerned I thought it was going to hit the curb but it didn't, and then it just went off waaay to the left, so that was good". I just find it amusing the way the driver handwaves away issues. That was good? I guess good that it didn't hit the curb?

I mean, it wasn't terrible but it had a lot of disengagements, and that was with very minimal traffic. I wouldn't say it was good enough to justify his title 'FSD Beta 10.69.2 Detroit Waymo & Cruise Are In Trouble'

 

[Bladerskb]

 

[JulienW]

^^^This happened to me yesterday on a Stop Sign I pass at least one a day (never happened before since 10.2). I went through the same Stop Sign today but had a lead car so not a problem. Now I wish I had went around the block to test again. Will test later today or tomorrow.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

^^^This happened to me yesterday on a Stop Sign I pass at least one a day (never happened before since 10.2). I went through the same Stop Sign today but had a lead car so not a problem. Now I wish I had went around the block to test again. Will test later today or tomorrow.

In the case above yours, it looks like it did a kind of poor job of visualizing the cross street. It had some idea but was not fleshed out.

Seeing the stop sign or not doesn’t matter. Humans don’t need to see the stop sign to know that they should stop. And often they even don’t look for it.

It’s a crossing street. You slow down and look, seems like a good plan. But seems to have been interpreted as a minor side street or something. Not sure.

In your case it should be visualized a lot more confidently. Would kind of expect it to stop at least some of the time, lol. Guess you’ll see.

 

[Dewg]

There's lots of talk about whether Tesla is using map data. In this video you can see the stop sign showing up in visualization but the car ignored it. I wonder if the car didn't have the stop on map data and was relying on or putting more weight on map data vs visual data.

 

[JulienW]

...But seems to have been interpreted as a minor side street or something. Not sure....

Like I said it is near my condo building and the route Beta takes every day. The street is a 4 lane with a wide median and the 2 lanes coming from the right are entering from a blind turn (and median occlusion) off the Interstate. So while not a major by city street standards it is hardy a minor side street by any standard.

Also Tesla has a 30 stall Supercharger off Fowler St and many Tesla's use this same route to get to it. I'm going to enter the parking deck right past it. So it is a common Tesla programed route. Chuck Cook even did a video about it some time back.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Like I said it is near my condo building and the route Beta takes every day.

Was referring to post before yours. In your case we have no idea what the visualizations look like. I would expect it will stop sometimes.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

There's lots of talk about whether Tesla is using map data. In this video you can see the stop sign showing up in visualization but the car ignored it. I wonder if the car didn't have the stop on map data and was relying on or putting more weight on map data vs visual data.

Maybe.

Anyway: This seems trivial. You don’t need map data or a stop sign. You just stop because it is obvious you should. Seems like a big error.

 

[momo3605]

Maybe.

Anyway: This seems trivial. You don’t need map data or a stop sign. You just stop because it is obvious you should. Seems like a big error.

It's not always obvious without a clear stop sign. We have intersections that have right-of-way for one side and stop signs on the other. If you just look at the intersection, all 4 sides look the same, except you're not supposed to stop if you're on one street. In this case, it's still good to slow and look very carefully as you drive through (I personally hate the added stress of this)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It's not always obvious without a clear stop sign. We have intersections that have right-of-way for one side and stop signs on the other. If you just look at the intersection, all 4 sides look the same, except you're not supposed to stop if you're on one street. In this case, it's still good to slow and look very carefully as you drive through (I personally hate the added stress of this)

Yep; I have discussed this scenario before. Those are pretty dangerous intersections.

My point was that for this case it is obviously a stop, no sign required. It’s very clear. No map data needed, no sign needed. The sign just is a formality and adds safety (and is probably required by law, no idea).

I suppose this is obvious when watching because the car is coming from an unmarked road to a marked road. If I saw the video correctly.

 

[sleepydoc]

Yep; I have discussed this scenario before. Those are pretty dangerous intersections.

My point was that for this case it is obviously a stop, no sign required. It’s very clear. No map data needed, no sign needed. The sign just is a formality and adds safety (and is probably required by law, no idea).

I suppose this is obvious when watching because the car is coming from an unmarked road to a marked road. If I saw the video correctly.

You seem to put a lot of weight on ‘because it’s obvious [to me]’ or ‘because that’s how I would do it’ in your judgements.

An ‘obvious’ interpretation (and that’s what you’re suggesting here’ is only obvious if the background experience and underlying rules make it obvious.

 

[sleepydoc]

There's lots of talk about whether Tesla is using map data. In this video you can see the stop sign showing up in visualization but the car ignored it. I wonder if the car didn't have the stop on map data and was relying on or putting more weight on map data vs visual data.

I had a very similar case a few days ago in 10.12. I was leaving the parking ramp at work and the GPS hadn’t synced yet so the car didn’t know where it was on the map. I had to slam on the brakes to keep it from running a stop sign that was clearly visible and has never been an issue in the past.

Seemed like a pretty clear example of Tesla letting the (erroneous in this case) map data override the cameras.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You seem to put a lot of weight on ‘because it’s obvious [to me]’ or ‘because that’s how I would do it’ in your judgements.

An ‘obvious’ interpretation (and that’s what you’re suggesting here’ is only obvious if the background experience and underlying rules make it obvious.

You wouldn’t stop at this junction if there were no stop sign?
To me this case seems obvious even with no prior experience and just a set of rules. Much easier than completely unmarked crossing junctions in residential neighborhoods where you just have to know which way is the main road.

 

[momo3605]

You wouldn’t stop at this junction if there were no stop sign?
To me this case seems obvious even with no prior experience and just a set of rules. Much easier than completely unmarked crossing junctions in residential neighborhoods where you just have to know which way is the main road.

If it was my first time driving through here without any map showing me a cross street, and i came around that bend, i might've had to slam on the brakes at the last minute. It's not obvious that a stop was coming and it comes right after a sharp right turn.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

If it was my first time driving through here without any map showing me a cross street, and i came around that bend, i might've had to slam on the brakes at the last minute. It's not obvious that a stop was coming and it comes right after a sharp right turn.

The car was going 15mph. Not very fast. People underestimate themselves - they would naturally slow down when coming up to a blind crest like this. Even if there were no sign.

This is one of the worst videos I've ever seen, so keep that in mind too when assessing how you would act. You might well be going less than 15mph too; it looks fairly steep and while 15mph is not fast, it is hard to tell if it is appropriate on a street like that around that bend. You just have to go by feel.

Videos, even wide angle ones, make it very difficult to assess situations, and this one is of very poor quality.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I had a very similar case a few days ago in 10.12. I was leaving the parking ramp at work and the GPS hadn’t synced yet so the car didn’t know where it was on the map. I had to slam on the brakes to keep it from running a stop sign that was clearly visible and has never been an issue in the past.

Seemed like a pretty clear example of Tesla letting the (erroneous in this case) map data override the cameras.

I remember there are examples of signs on the side of the road that look like stop signs or ones that are for different roads that the camera may interpret as for the current road, so probably map data is used to weed false positives out. I'm pretty sure however Tesla also can do camera only (speed limit signs were tested like this; it can react to a made up speed limit sign with some sanity checking for the numbers posted).

In your case however, given car was confused about the map location, it's possible that even any road structure based checks (not necessarily the stop sign being explicitly marked) would not be working.

 

[Dewg]

It must use visual data for stop signs as well as map data. There are examples of the car stopping for a stop sign meant for cross traffic, but angled such that the Tesla mistakes it for a stop it should take. Or was it picking up behavior of the lead car since it stopped for a car making a turn? Hmmm....

 

[Dave Mac]

I have gotten much more feedback on this video than most... mostly on Twitter. Feel free to ask questions and discuss.