I have had multiple instances now where FSD doesn't slow down at all, and would have gone right through a STOP sign had I not intervened. On every instance, the STOP is perfectly visible (no obstructions, curves, rises in road etc), and does appear on the visualization rendering on the screen. This last time was on a perfectly straight two lane country road with a 4 way STOP. Did not slow down at all. With the new update I have lost the ability to send the incident to the dev team. Has anyone else witnessed this behavior?
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FSD Blows Through Stop Signs
- Thread starter Canefan456
- Start date
are you on the absolute latest version and which branch of that version are you on? And whats the angle of the sun at that time of day?
Autopilot is still in Beta. Lots of work is going on to make it true FSD. The car has the equipment to become FSD, but still needs lots more software and experience to take on full autonomy. Every document and statement from Tesla says the human must be able to take over manual control in difficult situations or if necessary for any reason. Autopilot does best on center lanes of limited access highways in easy situations. Expecting it to be 100% in every driving condition is unrealistic. It handles intersections better if there is another car in front of you.
As time goes on, it will get better and better and easier to rely on.
As time goes on, it will get better and better and easier to rely on.
I'm on the latest version (10.69.3.1) and the sun was not an issue. Again, the STOP visualization does appear on the screen. It's reproducible at this particular STOP sign and happens at each approach to the 4 way STOP from any direction.
Yes, I understand all of this and have been in the Beta group for some time. What troubles me about this is that it was in no way an edge case. The signs are perfectly visible and are in fact showing up in the software visualization.
Is this not-stopping behavior a new regression with 10.69.3.1? Could be worthwhile to email Tesla as the video snapshot button is gone to describe the situation and a link to the intersection.
If you want to do some more testing before emailing, try lowering the set speed and see if that helps. What speed is it normally set at? I suppose if it's really clear there's no cross traffic (and no law enforcement nearby…), you could even let it do its thing as maybe it believes the stop line is past where it actually is.
Presumably, Tesla could have a data collection trigger set up to send back video of situations that the human driver applied harsh braking or even condition it situations where a stop sign is detected.
redmunds
Member
My understanding is that this is exactly what happens for any driver intervention such as applying the brakes, although I'm not sure what data or how much video is sent.
clydeiii
Member
I observe similar behavior in Baltimore. On my commute home it blows through TWO different stop signs. To be semi-fair to Tesla, one is a new stop sign, just recently installed. But the other stop sign has been there for as long as I can remember.
Additionally, it also stops for no reason, as if there were a stop sign, at multiple points on my commute. It does this consistently at the exact same spots, and both are at intersections.
From this, I conclude that they are trusting map data over the car's vision (because in both of running the stop, the stop sign is seen on the screen, and in both cases of it stopping for no reason, no stop sign is seen on the screen).
Additionally, it also stops for no reason, as if there were a stop sign, at multiple points on my commute. It does this consistently at the exact same spots, and both are at intersections.
From this, I conclude that they are trusting map data over the car's vision (because in both of running the stop, the stop sign is seen on the screen, and in both cases of it stopping for no reason, no stop sign is seen on the screen).
EVRider-FL
Active Member
I have the opposite problem (same build). My car is very hesitant to proceed through intersections after stopping for a stop sign. I usually have to ”encourage” it by pressing the throttle.
@verygreen has previously provided trigger names and a human readable interpretation of I believe were query conditions in JSON format as shared at AI Day 2021:
Is there a way for other people to view these trigger details or could you share what's available now?
I experience this same thing at 4 way stops as well as RR crossings. These are mostly country roads as well which makes me think the map data doesn't show a stop and the car & cameras are unable to see and react in time to the stop sign. At the RR crossing I have been able to test this best because the crossing has great visibility so I have been able to actually let it do it's thing. At 60mph the car blows through it barely hitting the brakes as an alarm sounds and it's going over the tracks, at 50-55mph sometimes can see and slam the brakes but usually lets back off the brakes as it passes the stop but has stopped a couple times. I have also had a time where I only had it doing 40mph and it still missed the stop sign and came to a stop right on the tracks before proceeding. Another reason I think this could be map data (different from the nav map data) is that this same RR track crosses 3 roads all with the same type of stop, I reported one to the team and the car began stopping at that one but not the other 2, I reported another and the car now stops at the 2 but not the 3rd. I am not reporting the 3rd because I am using that to see if they ever actually fix the real problem instead of map data. There are other intersections this problem happens, and one even has flashing red lights. At this intersection the car will brake when the light flashes then let off when the light goes out and this will repeat for a couple cycles which sometimes will slow the car enough to stop reasonably well when it sees the stop sign but usually I still have to hit the brake to avoid a really hard stop and other drivers thinking I'm about to hit them.
This stop sign behavior has been my biggest concern for a long time because not only the safety of it running stop signs (especially getting wide release), but I've been worried about whether the current cameras are good enough to see far enough to react and also it makes me worry a little if Tesla is maybe leading people to believe vision is doing/capable of more than what it is right now.
This stop sign behavior has been my biggest concern for a long time because not only the safety of it running stop signs (especially getting wide release), but I've been worried about whether the current cameras are good enough to see far enough to react and also it makes me worry a little if Tesla is maybe leading people to believe vision is doing/capable of more than what it is right now.
The thing about being "semi-fair to Tesla" the whole point of the vision system is that it shouldn't matter if the stop is new, that's exactly how vision is supposed to be superior to map data in that it can see the new stop sign and stop for it without the map being updated. This is again why I worry about them maybe misleading us on how good vision is vs how much the cars are actually relying on map data.
beta software shouldn't have this many big bugs, only a few little ones. This is still way under development, alpha or less.
I understand it's beta but I think we should have things like stopping at stop signs ironed out by now. I am fine with regressions when they are switching to a new way of doing things like with this last version the lane selection is much worse in my area than it has been in a long time but I am aware they are working on new lane logic so that's fine. My main concern with things like the stop sign issue is more that there is a possibility it's not a software problem.
I know it's frustrating and sometimes difficult to understand / accept as the updates roll out. All I can do is tell you that stop signs in my area are working just fine on 69.3.1. I tested a street near me with 3 stop signs back to back last week, and it handled them just fine. If there was a bug in the software on stop signs, it would be happening for more people / everyone. I'm sure it will get locked down as updates roll out. But like you said, future updates may break it again, and it will get tweaked and refined and fixed again on whatever new neural net they implement.
I, personally, just roll with it. If an update breaks something, I adapt and drive accordingly until the next update. For me, I've seen consistent improvement over the last year, and that's what's important.
If it happens to one person, it likely happens to a lot of people.
I had 10.69.3.1 run a stop sign. It was a residential road with the intersection about 100 ft from another intersection with a arterial street. I turned onto the residential street, and beta just accelerated right up to the point that I had to jam on the brakes. Ended up in the middle of the intersection. Fortunately, there were no other cars (especially a cop!), so no harm done. But it did run the stop sign.
I had never been on this road before, so I cannot say whether this was a new flaw. I have it noted for testing the next version that comes out.
I'm agreeing with you. I'm just saying that if it was happening to a large percentage of people, or everyone, I'd wager there would be a roll-back (like there has been in the past), or a new update quickly rolled out to fix the cars running stop signs left and right.
We just have to be vigilant as we drive near stop signs to see if the next update resolves it.
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