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I hope it’s okay to talk AP here too?
I just had a crazy situation when I turned on AP on the freeway this morning. The car immediately tried to center itself on the lane so abruptly that it startled my wife. I never had that happens before, so I wonder if this is a new behavior (not in a good way)?
 
I hope it’s okay to talk AP here too?
I just had a crazy situation when I turned on AP on the freeway this morning. The car immediately tried to center itself on the lane so abruptly that it startled my wife. I never had that happens before, so I wonder if this is a new behavior (not in a good way)?
Sounds like old behavior to me. I try to be careful where I am in the lane when I activate, so it doesn't startle people in the lanes next to me. I find it strange that they haven't fixed that, or the swerving to the right when a lane opens up wide. Seems like it would be an easy fix.
 
I have a Model S non-plaid arriving March 18-31. I need to sell my M3 LR. Local Tesla tells me that Car Max will give me more than Tesla. I go to Car Max and they tell me they don't value FSD because they can't pass it on to buyers. They claim that when the customer registers the car with Tesla, Tesla removes FSD. Is this true?
There was an explicit question about FSD value by Tesla on the Q4 earnings call and the answer was that they give higher value to trade-ins with FSD. This doesn't seem to be the case and if I can't pass FSD along in a private sale, then Tesla is basically robbing me of the value of FSD. Does anyone know for certain the real story? Thanks for any input.
 
It's been 1 month and 4 days since we first saw the 10.10 release notes. Seems very likely that V11 will be next up, no V10.11.

Elon will want to have V11 released ahead of ER - about 6 weeks away. Hoping it will be much sooner.

Elon's All-in podcast didn't come out this weekend as expected. Seems Elon doesn't want to compete with Ukraine for airtime. He is rightly putting his time into it also. It is possible although unlikely that v11 release has been delayed for the same reason.
 
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I have a Model S non-plaid arriving March 18-31. I need to sell my M3 LR. Local Tesla tells me that Car Max will give me more than Tesla. I go to Car Max and they tell me they don't value FSD because they can't pass it on to buyers. They claim that when the customer registers the car with Tesla, Tesla removes FSD. Is this true?
There was an explicit question about FSD value by Tesla on the Q4 earnings call and the answer was that they give higher value to trade-ins with FSD. This doesn't seem to be the case and if I can't pass FSD along in a private sale, then Tesla is basically robbing me of the value of FSD. Does anyone know for certain the real story? Thanks for any input.
I think CarMax is wrong. Check with a lawyer, but if the car doesn't pass through Tesla's hands they should have no right to remove features. There was a case where Tesla deactivated FSD after someone bought from a used car dealer, but that car did pass through Tesla's hands. (I think Tesla ended up restoring FSD in that case due to bad publicity.)

Used cars with FSD don't command much of a premium over those without. It's kind of like rustproofing or "Indianapolis 500 Pace Car" special editions back in the day. Used car buyers tend to be more interested in reliable transportation than expensive party tricks. So there's no reason for either Tesla or CarMax to pay much for your FSD.

The right thing to do is let you transfer FSD to your new car since Tesla never delivered on Musk's grandiose claims. But you're spending 100k on a new Tesla anyway, so why would they?
 
Maybe this is the time, maybe it isn't.

With Elon's history on this particular topic the next tweet on it that I want to see amounts to "vXX FSD is being distributed now to the full beta test group". Don't talk about it until its real.

I'm a big believer in the potential. I also know its a ridiculously hard problem to "solve" (the solution will continue evolving for decades), but until it is sufficiently solved that I get it (not a beta user) or at least the wide pool of beta users get it, then just don't provide updates on imminent availability. Historically talking about imminent availability is followed sooner or later by another delay and then a ground up re-write. This is -exactly- how I would expect something like this to progress and not a concern for me as far as technical progress goes.

Its talking about project timelines publically when the underlying problem solution is fundamentally unknowable, up to and including the possibility that the problem is unsolvable (I don't believe its unsolvable - only that the outcome is inside of the range of outcomes).
 
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Is 10.10.2 the best build so far for me? Yes, it does just about everything better, except makes sometimes moves to far to the left (over a double yellow sometimes) when making a right hand turn.

Are there main adoption blockers? Yes, see below.

Summary - For me the main issues with 10.10.2 are it hesitates and is abrupt when it is safe upsetting other drivers and at harder intersections proceeds when unsafe.

Harshness and upsetting other driver behavior - When the human driver knows it has right if way and the way is clear, FSD has random hesitations, rapid jerks of the steering wheel and sudden stops/accelerations due to lack of confidence at normal intersections, with any level of traffic where it performed remarkably different at the same intersection with the same build several times prior. This makes it very difficult for the human driver to predict how well FSD will navigate a given intersection.

Unsafe maneuvers - Some harder intersections, with obtuse/oblique angles, steep inclines/declines, remarkably different speed limits result in FSD entering traffic without sensing/seeing/reacting incoming vehicles.

Are there ways to fix these main adoption blockers coming in V11? Totally and it would seem that the biggest is using vehicle data to create ground truth for training. I'm referring to this patent specifically.

How would I go about fixing these issues? While I'm not on the team anymore, I'd specifically look at a way where FSD could have differing levels of trust when entering a new road segment. Currently, FSD has no trust of a new road segment. Each road segment is a black box as the vehicle sees/comprehends new road features. Each visual frame that is fed into the trained model(s) is brand new and has no significance above and beyond the last. I think this could be greatly improved to evolve into each frame having different levels of trust for certain road features. In other words, some of the road features in a given road segment could be immediately be marked as the highest trust level and thus path planning could be optimized to the smoothest, most ideal path possible.

I would define a road segment to be any part of a drivable path that has a given longitudinal length of about or equal to 100m where there is not an intersection. Any intersection is defined as its own road segment with each part of its path being its own segment. Thus a 4 way intersection where each is single lanes has a total of nine segments. 4 that enter, the middle of the intersection and 4 that leave. Each of these segments would have a level of trust associated with it where the highest is used as ground truth and lowest is a black box or no trust whatsoever. Highest trust is established when each visual frame is within a pre-established tolerance range over a period of 3 to 5 frames which allows the system to retain smoothness without impacting safety, even at higher speeds. The level of trust for each road segment starts out at the highest level and then is re-established with every 3 to 5 frames. This is simplistic as tolerances can be dynamically adjusted with several attempts at the same segments overtime. Tolerances can also be saved locally and shared with the fleet for planned routes. I would anticipate shared tolerances route planning data to be less than a megabyte of information as these tolerances could be used as weighted inputs to the real-time trained inference model.
 
Is 10.10.2 the best build so far for me? Yes, it does just about everything better, except makes sometimes moves to far to the left (over a double yellow sometimes) when making a right hand turn.
Oddly 10.10.2 is, for me, worse than 10.9 and 10.10. While some things have improved, it can no longer reasonably navigate two intersections near where I live. It weaves drunkenly across multiple lanes. Perhaps this is due to downloading new maps (2021.44-13555) during the same time period? I don't know, but I do know that 10.10.2 is not usable for me in situations where 10.9 was just fine.
 
Oddly 10.10.2 is, for me, worse than 10.9 and 10.10. While some things have improved, it can no longer reasonably navigate two intersections near where I live. It weaves drunkenly across multiple lanes. Perhaps this is due to downloading new maps (2021.44-13555) during the same time period? I don't know, but I do know that 10.10.2 is not usable for me in situations where 10.9 was just fine.
Downloading a new map wouldn't cause that weaving behavior, but what might is that with 10.10.2

I notice very different behavior for each road segment on multiple attempts to navigate.
 
Downloading a new map wouldn't cause that weaving behavior, but what might is that with 10.10.2

I notice very different behavior for each road segment on multiple attempts to navigate.
Seriously? Then what is the map used for? It doesn't provide information identifying where lanes start and end, and what the lanes are for? The behavior I'm seeing could be caused by erroneous decisions, then quick and erroneous corrections, as to whether particular lanes are left turn only, right turn only, and various combinations including straight.
 
Ironically, it's not the "dangerous" maneuvers that have me currently placing beta FSD into a "timeout" with my Tesla...it's the integrated auto wipers! I had just cleaned my car the day before, so she was clean and sparkling. That night using beta FSD to help with the cause....out of nowhere it turns on my wipers and sprays my windshield (and the rest of my formerly clean car). Man that pissed me off. I'd rather it give me a choice....auto clean the windshield or disengage FSD....I'd pick disengage FOR SURE. Anyway, really annoying on such a small thing...I likely won't help with the cause until my car is dirty now 😒
 
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Ironically, it's not the "dangerous" maneuvers that have me currently placing beta FSD into a "timeout" with my Tesla...it's the integrated auto wipers! I had just cleaned my car the day before, so she was clean and sparkling. That night using beta FSD to help with the cause....out of nowhere it turns on my wipers and sprays my windshield (and the rest of my formerly clean car). Man that pissed me off. I'd rather it give me a choice....auto clean the windshield or disengage FSD....I'd pick disengage FOR SURE. Anyway, really annoying on such a small thing...I likely won't help with the cause until my car is dirty now 😒
I keep trying out the auto wipers now and again. I continue turning them right back off - at least for me in Oregon they have a ways to go to be my default setting.
 
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Almost 100% of the replies, almost all of them fanboys, including ones like Whole Mars, are calling out Elon on this. They all point out, the interventions are nothing close to rare. It has gotten better, but rare? hell no. Not even close, is the verdict by everyone on that tweet thread.
 
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Almost 100% of the replies, almost all of them fanboys, including ones like Whole Mars, are calling out Elon on this. They all point out, the interventions are nothing close to rare. It has gotten better, but rare? hell no. Not even close, is the verdict by everyone on that tweet thread.
A) Tesla can see intervention data so maybe there is a consistent trend downwards on interventions and Elon is making assumptions based on data. Humans are terrible about keeping tracks mentally of things like this. One intervention can psychologically make someone feel like it's not getting better.

B) Elon usually runs on a more advanced build, as does Tesla employees. We don't know if Elon's referencing a newer build or even V11 that Tesla is running internally.

Not saying Elon is right here, but there's other things to consider when he makes that statement.
 
Harshness and upsetting other driver behavior - When the human driver knows it has right if way and the way is clear, FSD has random hesitations, rapid jerks of the steering wheel and sudden stops/accelerations due to lack of confidence at normal intersections, with any level of traffic where it performed remarkably different at the same intersection with the same build several times prior. This makes it very difficult for the human driver to predict how well FSD will navigate a given intersection.

Unsafe maneuvers - Some harder intersections, with obtuse/oblique angles, steep inclines/declines, remarkably different speed limits result in FSD entering traffic without sensing/seeing/reacting incoming vehicles.
Totally agree with your observations. FSD is super hesitant to make unprotected left turns, despite the coast being clear. I now just hit the accelerator to clear unprotected left intersections, esp those with flashing yellow lights--FSD really seems to gag on those. I wonder if the hesitation and seemingly slow decision making is related to insufficient HW 3.0 processing power?

And FSD "creeps" into oncoming traffic in an unsafe manner for visibility. For example, when making a right, if there is a car approaching from the left, instead of either waiting till the car passes or pull out (which it often has room to do comfortably), FSD instead "creeps" forward INTO the oncoming traffic lane and stops. Like WTF? I then need to slam the accelerator to make the turn and avoid getting hit. This happens all the time at certain intersections. It makes me think this is a visibility issue. They probably need to put forward-side facing cameras in the repeaters, so car can more easily see traffic at obtuse/oblique angle intersections.

They also need to do something regarding spatial memory and routing when intersections have multiple left or right turn lanes. The choice of which turn lane is best varies depending on where one is going after clearing the intersection.

And it doesn't enter turn lanes aggressively enough in heavy traffic. Instead it waits to see the dashed "entry" lines. In heavy traffic, people get into turn lanes early. FSD needs to recognize when traffic is heavy, FSD needs to move car into turn lane sooner, even if it means traveling in a bike lane for a short distance, or squeezing between the stopped cars and the curb. Humans do this all the time, as if they didn't, they would not be able to get in the turn lane.
 
Seriously? Then what is the map used for? It doesn't provide information identifying where lanes start and end, and what the lanes are for? The behavior I'm seeing could be caused by erroneous decisions, then quick and erroneous corrections, as to whether particular lanes are left turn only, right turn only, and various combinations including straight.
The map is only used for very rough turns. For FSD, the road ahead is a complete black box, until is runs a NN trained model to infer what is in the black box. Thus if it infers a lane it will use it, but it has to infer it first, nothing is inferred from the map other than a turn is coming up in X feet which is fused to GPS.
 
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