FSD Feature Complete

[MacJester]

I’ve been reading the threads about the latest software updates, and thinking about Elon suggesting that all that is really needed for FSD to be feature complete (defined as getting you from home to work by itself most of the time, but with occasional need for human intervention) is traffic light and stop sign recognition. I wondered what other features people thought would be needed to actually manage that kind of home to work drive? My initial thoughts were:

- adjusting speed to be safe for the road, not just driving at the limit
- roundabouts!
- actually recognising speed signs, including overhead gantries, and adjusting speed before getting to them when speed limit drops
- autopark working in the kind of spaces you actually see (10ft wide spaces aren’t even standard in the US) and not only working between two cars.

I’ve got a feeling there must be loads more tho.

 

[spon88]

I'm staying realistic and thankful I didn't invest in FSD at this stage to be honest. There are some fundamental problems which I can't see being overcome for some while. At its most basic we have sensors which are easily overcome by rain, autopilot which isn't reliable (phantom braking, unnecessary evasive action etc), visualisation which isn't anywhere near complete (my car see the neighbour's Christmas lights as traffic cones!) and more.

I know they'll make great strides over the next couple of years, but even then, I can't see my car driving me anywhere unaided even then. From a safety perspective, this type of stuff has to be extremely reliable and it's a long way off, even for relatively simple functions. I think it's an exciting project but perhaps oversold at this stage in its evolution?

 

[kevuwk]

Being able to drive past a parked car is one of the biggest ones especially in the UK

 

[ivangr]

I'm staying realistic and thankful I didn't invest in FSD at this stage to be honest. There are some fundamental problems which I can't see being overcome for some while. At its most basic we have sensors which are easily overcome by rain, autopilot which isn't reliable (phantom braking, unnecessary evasive action etc), visualisation which isn't anywhere near complete (my car see the neighbour's Christmas lights as traffic cones!) and more.

I know they'll make great strides over the next couple of years, but even then, I can't see my car driving me anywhere unaided even then. From a safety perspective, this type of stuff has to be extremely reliable and it's a long way off, even for relatively simple functions. I think it's an exciting project but perhaps oversold at this stage in its evolution?

The fact the car can change lane itself and go off the motorway itself has been enough for me to justify paying for FSD now. I know it's not much but I feel safer when it changes lanes for me.
I think it's also a lot to do with personality. I want to be the vanguard that gets the new little features. It's worth it for me in that respect. It's fun.

 

[SirRob]

Even the basics of controlling the car in relatively simple scenarios seems way, way off to me. I believe in the project and I'm sure it'll get there eventually but it feels like it's only 50% of the way there.

 

[spon88]

The fact the car can change lane itself and go off the motorway itself has been enough for me to justify paying for FSD now. I know it's not much but I feel safer when it changes lanes for me.
I think it's also a lot to do with personality. I want to be the vanguard that gets the new little features. It's worth it for me in that respect. It's fun.

Totally respect that. It would be nice to be part of the experiment but it's quite a lot of cash. I did try to persevere with autopilot but it came too close to nobbling me on several occasions so I've given up for now

 

[Mr Miserable]

Tesla FSD developer.

£5,800 lighter too

 

[xnetco]

What about turning right into a junction? How can FSD understand flashing of headlights and eye contact?

 

[MrBadger]

Lots of criticism of FSD must of which based upon peoples experiences of basic auto pilot being used in scenarios that it is not designed for.

I just think of the FSD package as half being EAP (which many were happy to pay for) and the other half as a few months depreciation - the original FSD was actually much closer to EAP pricing, but I lost that deal when I added tow and most others lost that deal when given an even heftier price cut, which easily covered a set of winter wheels and the lost FSD discount.

 

[ivangr]

Lots of criticism of FSD must of which based upon peoples experiences of basic auto pilot being used in scenarios that it is not designed for.

I just think of the FSD package as half being EAP (which many were happy to pay for) and the other half as a few months depreciation - the original FSD was actually much closer to EAP pricing, but I lost that deal when I added tow and most others lost that deal when given an even heftier price cut, which easily covered a set of winter wheels and the lost FSD discount.

yeah the only way i can understand these criticism is by accepting people use it where it’s not meant to be used. I use NoA every day on the motorways. It’s made my commute a joy. I also do long journeys with it and it works perfectly.

I’m glad I paid the £5800 now rather than having to later.

 

[ivangr]

Totally respect that. It would be nice to be part of the experiment but it's quite a lot of cash. I did try to persevere with autopilot but it came too close to nobbling me on several occasions so I've given up for now

works perfectly for me. update your car and don’t use it in towns?

 

[spon88]

works perfectly for me. update your car and don’t use it in towns?

I used it per the manual (dual carriageway and motorways) and my car is 5 months old and updated as soon as new releases become available. Still too many widespread issues to consider it safe in my book but I'm pleased that others have had more reassuring experiences. If you've not been subject to phantom braking or lurching between white lines, then that's great. I and many others have which is why my confidence in the system isn't exactly on a high and why I'll continue to treat it cautiously. It doesn't take more than a couple of instances of erratic behaviour at 70mph and other drivers thinking you gone mad to raise concern. Don't get me wrong, this hasn't happened lots, just sufficient to tell me that there is still a lot of work to do.

Outside of autopilot, I've also had two instances of automatic avoidance when there was none needed; indeed the first time it happenend the car veered away from a bridge and nearly into oncoming traffic. I had the rear spoiler fixed and the SC also checked over the sensors - no issues there apparently. So apparently spurious albeit slightly worrying events!

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I suspect it will never really get to FSD given the fundamental issues with the (current) sensors and the huge amount of variables which need to be processed, but I genuinely hope I'm wrong. As an aid for long journeys on (quiet) motorways or to help in slow moving traffic, then no doubt it will be helpful there. I'll keep testing as the new software releases come out and fingers crossed. Outside of my mistrust of autopilot, I love the car - I didn't buy it thinking it would drive itself so should it ever become autonomous, that would be a bonus

 

[Mr Miserable]

If you've not been subject to phantom braking or lurching between white lines, then that's great. I and many others have which is why my confidence in the system isn't exactly on a high and why I'll continue to treat it cautiously. It doesn't take more than a couple of instances of erratic behaviour at 70mph and other drivers thinking you gone mad to raise concern. Don't get me wrong, this hasn't happened lots, just sufficient to tell me that there is still a lot of work to do.

IMHO that's a fair and reasonable assessment.

 

[Cogarch]

@xnetco nails it. It doesn't matter how well AP manages to interpret the physical environment: unless it can communicate and negotiate with other road users (which is pretty much unthinkable until cars have facial expressions and gestures!) FSD will never operate reliably in urban driving conditions.

 

[ivangr]

I used it per the manual (dual carriageway and motorways) and my car is 5 months old and updated as soon as new releases become available. Still too many widespread issues to consider it safe in my book but I'm pleased that others have had more reassuring experiences. If you've not been subject to phantom braking or lurching between white lines, then that's great. I and many others have which is why my confidence in the system isn't exactly on a high and why I'll continue to treat it cautiously. It doesn't take more than a couple of instances of erratic behaviour at 70mph and other drivers thinking you gone mad to raise concern. Don't get me wrong, this hasn't happened lots, just sufficient to tell me that there is still a lot of work to do.

Outside of autopilot, I've also had two instances of automatic avoidance when there was none needed; indeed the first time it happenend the car veered away from a bridge and nearly into oncoming traffic. I had the rear spoiler fixed and the SC also checked over the sensors - no issues there apparently. So apparently spurious albeit slightly worrying events!

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I suspect it will never really get to FSD given the fundamental issues with the (current) sensors and the huge amount of variables which need to be processed, but I genuinely hope I'm wrong. As an aid for long journeys on (quiet) motorways or to help in slow moving traffic, then no doubt it will be helpful there. I'll keep testing as the new software releases come out and fingers crossed. Outside of my mistrust of autopilot, I love the car - I didn't buy it thinking it would drive itself so should it ever become autonomous, that would be a bonus

strange. i have the odd bit of phantom braking in a particular spot. it doesn’t do it if cars are behind me. sometimes i don’t like how it takes off ramps with two lanes on the offramp.
everything else is fine. i’m on the a9, a90 and m90 a lot and it makes life so much easier. i had to drive from aberdeen to edinburgh in really bad rain a while back. AP made a usually stressful trip completely stress free.

anyway. your experience is what it is. i’m glad mine is ok

 

[ramonneke]

@xnetco nails it. It doesn't matter how well AP manages to interpret the physical environment: unless it can communicate and negotiate with other road users (which is pretty much unthinkable until cars have facial expressions and gestures!) FSD will never operate reliably in urban driving conditions.

Nah, I don't think that is true. The car will follow the rules as-is. Non-verbal communications currently only are used to not apply the rules because of convenience in most situations.

Also, a car can honk and blink its lights. Probably already covering 99% of all non verbal communications needed.

 

[xnetco]

The other thing for me is avoiding pot holes. Tesla can’t do that at present.

 

[NewbieT]

AP did drive around / avoid a standing water/puddle on the central reservation today though. Impressed. It may have just thought the edge of the road had moved.

 

[Artiste]

I didn’t go for FSD because I didn’t think it would be value for money for several years. What I define as “full self driving” capability is very different to Tesla’s definition.

And I’m glad I didn’t because my experience with TACC has been far from positive. I can’t drive for more than a few miles on the motorway without experiencing phantom braking, and in some cases it is severe. On a couple of occasions, when moving from lane 2 to lane 3, the car has slammed the brakes on quite violently for no apparent reason, taking me down rapidly from 70mph to 40mph before I intervened. So I stopped using it in October because I considered it to be too dangerous.

TACC and autopilot are still in beta. Beta hardware and software are generally only released to developers and testers, and perhaps enthusiasts who sign up. I don’t know why Tesla release beta products to the general public when sometimes they are barely fit for purpose.

In winter with dirt on the roads and low sunlight I, like many others, have frequent alerts saying one or several cameras are dirty or blinded and obviously FSD can’t work if the cameras are compromised - a very simple but common problem to which there is currently no solution.

And there are those who argue that no car can achieve full self driving (i.e. at least level 4 autonomous driving) without LIDAR. Elon obviously disagrees, and I guess we’ll have the answer in a few years time.

 

[Rooster6655]

I didn’t go for FSD because I didn’t think it would be value for money for several years. What I define as “full self driving” capability is very different to Tesla’s definition.

And I’m glad I didn’t because my experience with TACC has been far from positive. I can’t drive for more than a few miles on the motorway without experiencing phantom braking, and in some cases it is severe. On a couple of occasions, when moving from lane 2 to lane 3, the car has slammed the brakes on quite violently for no apparent reason, taking me down rapidly from 70mph to 40mph before I intervened. So I stopped using it in October because I considered it to be too dangerous.

TACC and autopilot are still in beta. Beta hardware and software are generally only released to developers and testers, and perhaps enthusiasts who sign up. I don’t know why Tesla release beta products to the general public when sometimes they are barely fit for purpose.

In winter with dirt on the roads and low sunlight I, like many others, have frequent alerts saying one or several cameras are dirty or blinded and obviously FSD can’t work if the cameras are compromised - a very simple but common problem to which there is currently no solution.

And there are those who argue that no car can achieve full self driving (i.e. at least level 4 autonomous driving) without LIDAR. Elon obviously disagrees, and I guess we’ll have the answer in a few years time.

yes I’m expecting delays all round for FSD, I mean it’s supposed to be feature complete and most people aren’t even happy with the current AP

Spotify barely works half the time, voice commands don’t work (not just UK) and they can’t even sort out their parts logistics, so FSD is not happening on time