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FSD features to start rolling out in August...

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Based on Tesla Marketing this is what I think is going to happen:

AP1 is feature frozen. You may see improvements in the existing features (i.e. handle sharp curves better) but you will not see any new features such as taking a exit or recognizing a light or stop sign.

AP2 will have some new features as outlined in the marketing material released by Tesla.

FSD will, over time, add the features needed to be true FSD. Until all these features are added, debugged and the regulatory approval is granted you will still be responsible and required to pay attention and take over when the car does not handle a particular situation.

So unless Tesla changes what they have said so far there will be three different capabilities available depending on which version of HW you have and what you purchased in the way of AP and FSD.
 
The big question is, whether those self-driving features will need to be paid for under the 3-4k price tag, or are these self-driving features considered part of the enhanced autopilot features (since some of the enhanced autopilot features already are self-driving, just with a word of caution).
 
I love EAP, but it is not perfect. It's occasional poor judgement is enough for me to want to take a more wait and see approach to FSD. I would be willing to upgrade to FSD, but only after it's out of beta mode and is both useful and safe. I expect FSD features will come out as beta and therefore will NOT relieve the driver of full responsibility just like EAP does. Maybe using the navigation system to change freeways? Maybe recognize stop lights or stop signs? Can't wait to see, but from the sidelines for me....
 
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The big question is, whether those self-driving features will need to be paid for under the 3-4k price tag, or are these self-driving features considered part of the enhanced autopilot features (since some of the enhanced autopilot features already are self-driving, just with a word of caution).

I think that's already pretty clearly answered by Elon specifically saying FSD features. Meaning you don't get them without having paid for FSD.
 
They are still killing people with AP. FSD will be a nightmare. I would hope the first computer to kill a person would demand a lawsuit large enough to bankrupt any company that put it on the road. We can not accept machines killing humans.


Lol! This post gets the silly statement of the week award. Attention people of earth! All incremental safety improvements will be disallowed. All or nothing now.

Newsflash: machines kill people every day.
 
Lol! This post gets the silly statement of the week award. Attention people of earth! All incremental safety improvements will be disallowed. All or nothing now.

Newsflash: machines kill people every day.
This person either does not own a Tesla with autopilot, because the only way for him to persist in fearmongering... -- well, on the other hand, I suppose he could be conservative.
 
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I think that's already pretty clearly answered by Elon specifically saying FSD features. Meaning you don't get them without having paid for FSD.

Yeah. There is a reason why Tesla has a package called "Full Self-Driving" on the order page. Anyone who somehow is hoping that they will get these "FSD" features without paying for the FSD package is fooling themselves.
 
EAP and FSD are going to have a large overlap of features that are still not released. Take for instance automatic lane changes, freeway transitions and freeway exits; those are clearly advertised as a features of EAP, not just FSD. Features like traffic light and sign detection fit more into the description of FSD.

So, I think the specific feature will determine if it is released to those that have EAP or only to those with EAP+FSD.
 
They are still killing people with AP. FSD will be a nightmare. I would hope the first computer to kill a person would demand a lawsuit large enough to bankrupt any company that put it on the road. We can not accept machines killing humans.

Precisely the problem thinking. Yes machines will kill humans... no system is perfect. The goal is to make machines that kill WAY LESS humans than humans that kill humans.

By your brilliant logic if we go from 40,000 deaths a year where humans kill humans now to 1,000 deaths a year where self-driving cars kill humans and to you that's worse? Those 39,000 lives saved by self-driving cars are a bad thing?
 
I don't think it's intended to have that feature at future point either...
I think the distinctions are AP on AP1 cars and EAP/FSD on AP2/2.5 cars. AP probably isn't going to see much if anything in the way of new features, but it's not unreasonable to expect it to get better at what it does. EAP has finally achieved most of the features of AP, better in many and still lacking a couple but missing the features that make it "Enhanced". FSD has absolutely no features released.

FSD absolutely requires all of the unreleased EAP features in order to succeed. It's likely that many of the first FSD features will apply to EAP as well.
 
They are still killing people with AP. FSD will be a nightmare. I would hope the first computer to kill a person would demand a lawsuit large enough to bankrupt any company that put it on the road. We can not accept machines killing humans.

Human drivers cause about 35,000 deaths per year in the U.S. alone. So you are saying that you would prohibit a computer system that could reduce that number to 10,000 deaths per year. You cannot accept machines killing humans, but you can accept humans killing humans? Where's the sense in that?

As soon as computers are as safe as human drivers they should be allowed. Once computers are safer than human drivers, they should be mandatory. Cars are much safer than they used to be because of padded dashboards, seat belts, anti-lock brakes, air bags, etc. People have been killed by air bags. But only a moron would prohibit them (or ride in a car without them) because they save far more people than they kill. AP is just a set of driver-assist features that when used properly make driving safer. People will still die in cars equipped with AP. It's idiotic to just look at those deaths without looking at the overall effect of the features.

My only quarrel with Musk is that I don't think he should use the term FSD for cars that are not FSD, even if they are in a trim line that Tesla intends at some point in the future to achieve FSD. Personally, I don't think the hardware in the Model 3 is adequate for an optimum FSD system. Maybe he should have just used the term Limited Autopilot for what we have now, and Enhanced Limited Autopilot for the features that will come out for the $3K upgrade.
 
EAP and FSD are going to have a large overlap of features that are still not released. Take for instance automatic lane changes, freeway transitions and freeway exits; those are clearly advertised as a features of EAP, not just FSD. Features like traffic light and sign detection fit more into the description of FSD.

So, I think the specific feature will determine if it is released to those that have EAP or only to those with EAP+FSD.
 
More detailed view of all vehicles surrounding the car. Showing cars on either side, as well as behind you. This would probably be a prelude to the use of such information as detailed below. All the cameras, sensors and processing power are there, just a matter of the software presenting this information on the display.

This would enable FSD equipped cars to possibly also change lanes automatically on the freeway without the driver having to use a turn signal. This seems like one of the lower hanging fruit in the FSD world. I would imagine that in order to be safe, these early FSD features might be geofenced to only work on actual freeways.

Makes me happy I checked the $3,000 FSD box when ordering. Good thing I drank that extra glass of wine before making that decision...

RT

I just edited my design to add also. Hope we win!

Human drivers cause about 35,000 deaths per year in the U.S. alone. So you are saying that you would prohibit a computer system that could reduce that number to 10,000 deaths per year. You cannot accept machines killing humans, but you can accept humans killing humans? Where's the sense in that?

As soon as computers are as safe as human drivers they should be allowed. Once computers are safer than human drivers, they should be mandatory. Cars are much safer than they used to be because of padded dashboards, seat belts, anti-lock brakes, air bags, etc. People have been killed by air bags. But only a moron would prohibit them (or ride in a car without them) because they save far more people than they kill. AP is just a set of driver-assist features that when used properly make driving safer. People will still die in cars equipped with AP. It's idiotic to just look at those deaths without looking at the overall effect of the features.

My only quarrel with Musk is that I don't think he should use the term FSD for cars that are not FSD, even if they are in a trim line that Tesla intends at some point in the future to achieve FSD. Personally, I don't think the hardware in the Model 3 is adequate for an optimum FSD system. Maybe he should have just used the term Limited Autopilot for what we have now, and Enhanced Limited Autopilot for the features that will come out for the $3K upgrade.

My fear is the negative PR when FSD kills an innocent bystander a human could have easily avoided.

I agree with you we should look at it statistically, but I just fear the bad PR for Tesla’s sake