Anybody who paid for FSD already is going to be chomping at the bit for FSD only features to be released. Thing is, Tesla has already defined many of the features for EAP and the jump from EAP to FSD is primarily about surface streets and lessening or removing the driver attention requirement.
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FSD features to start rolling out in August...
- Thread starter drawfour
- Start date
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
EAP can't see stationary objects consistently yet. Unless they're saving that feature for FSD then using it in an area with pedestrians and bike traffic seems very risky at this point.
What you describe is not an FSD feature. It falls clearly within the bounds of EAP as currently described today on Tesla website:
Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.
Emphasis mine. If Tesla tried to make that a FSD feature, they'd have some very unhappy people to deal with.
Stopping for stationary objects will absolutely for sure also be introduced to EAP. Anything else would make no sense and be ridiculous, because it's a safety feature. Just like Emergency Braking for people without EAP.
The technical dev process for stationary on the other hand is highly dependent on the system being contextual aware and understanding the situation in front. That depends on FSD being partially implemented before it can be introduced back to EAP. They are not likely quite there yet.
chronopc
Active Member
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I think a good way to distinguish between EAP features and FSD features is what camera they will require. We know from the FSD description on the Tesla website that FSD will use all 8 cameras whereas EAP will only use 4. Since we also know that EAP uses the 3 front cameras and the 1 rear camera that leaves the side cameras for FSD. Granted that there could be FSD features that also use the forward cameras but any feature that requires the side cameras definitely has to be a FSD feature.
Number of cameras is quite certainly just a marketing gimmick. I bet Tesla had no idea themselves when they wrote that. A lot of buyers aren't that technical, and may have difficulty understanding most of the difference between EAP and FSD. But everyone knows 8 is probably better than 4.
Tbh I think both EAP and FSD will use all 8 cameras. The reason? FSD and EAP will in the end be the same codebase, technically it makes no sense to block cameras when you can just block individual features.
Also to automatically change lanes on highway (EAP feature) you need fo check blindspot and for speeding traffic from behind. For that you need all 4 side cameras anyway. That would leave you with 0 front cameras.
Honestly, I'm not even sure that's a good delineation. Automatic lane change is clearly spelled out as an EAP feature and I think it's going to require side camera based blind spot detection to be reliable. I know the website calls out the 4 vs. 8 cameras, but I'm not sure the EAP features are possible without at least some of the side cameras.
chronopc
Active Member
The list below is what EAP should be eventually able to do according to what's written on Tesla's website. From my understanding FSD is when the car can take you from point A to point B without any input from the driver.
Autopilot
Enhanced Autopilot
Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.
Tesla’s Enhanced Autopilot software has begun rolling out and features will continue to be introduced as validation is completed, subject to regulatory approval. Every driver is responsible for remaining alert and active when using Autopilot, and must be prepared to take action at any time.
On-ramp to Off-ramp
Once on the freeway, your Tesla will determine which lane you need to be in and when. In addition to ensuring you reach your intended exit, Autopilot will watch for opportunities to move to a faster lane when you're caught behind slower traffic. When you reach your exit, your Tesla will depart the freeway, slow down and transition control back to you.
Autosteer+
With the new Tesla Vision cameras, sensors and computing power, your Tesla will navigate tighter, more complex roads.
Smart Summon
With Smart Summon, your car will navigate more complex environments and parking spaces, maneuvering around objects as necessary to come find you.
Autopilot
Enhanced Autopilot
Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.
Tesla’s Enhanced Autopilot software has begun rolling out and features will continue to be introduced as validation is completed, subject to regulatory approval. Every driver is responsible for remaining alert and active when using Autopilot, and must be prepared to take action at any time.
On-ramp to Off-ramp
Once on the freeway, your Tesla will determine which lane you need to be in and when. In addition to ensuring you reach your intended exit, Autopilot will watch for opportunities to move to a faster lane when you're caught behind slower traffic. When you reach your exit, your Tesla will depart the freeway, slow down and transition control back to you.
Autosteer+
With the new Tesla Vision cameras, sensors and computing power, your Tesla will navigate tighter, more complex roads.
Smart Summon
With Smart Summon, your car will navigate more complex environments and parking spaces, maneuvering around objects as necessary to come find you.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I see your point. Certainly the side cameras would seem to be pretty important in making the auto lane change feature safe and reliable. Doing auto lane change without driver input now with just the ultrasonics for blind spot detection would be doable, but does not sound like it would be very safe.
Honestly, I only see two ways to get out this. Tesla either moves the auto lane change without driver input over to the FSD column which would make some sense since it does sound more like a FSD feature to me or Tesla scraps the 4 v 8 cameras line from the description and uses the side cameras for EAP after all. Honestly, I am not sure why Tesla even put the auto lane change without driver input in the EAP column to begin with since having the car make a decision on its own to change lanes seems like a self-driving feature to me.
The first option would require Tesla to break a promise to deliver a feature to EAP. Although, since EAP owners would still be getting auto lane change with driver input, I don't know how many would really care. It's not like EAP owners would be losing a feature really, they would just be getting a slightly different version of the same feature.
However, The second option would be better IMO since it would make auto lane change safer and not require breaking any promises. Plus, I don't think many owners would be upset that EAP is using more cameras than originally advertised since that would be a good thing. So the first option breaks a small promise while the second option actually gives owners something better.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Thanks for posting the descriptions again. I have to say, the way it is worded, the On-ramp to Off-ramp feature actually sounds a lot like FSD to me too since it involves the car making driving decisions for you. Weird. The description sounds a lot like Tesla wanted EAP to be self-driving too, just only on highways, with FSD being self-driving everywhere. At least that is how I interpret the descriptions.
Moving an advertised feature behind another paywall would be a much bigger issue than just never releasing it. There's no liability at all if they use all 8 cameras for EAP features.
Of course, Tesla never states which 4 of the 8 cameras are used for EAP vs FSD. The main forward, forward looking side and rear view cameras provide roughly 360 degree coverage; so they could always claim those are the 4 they meant.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Yeah, I think I made a false assumption that EAP will use the 3 front cameras and the rear camera.
I am not sure why Tesla even mentioned how many cameras each would use, other than to make FSD look better on paper. They could have just left that part out and used whatever cameras they wanted.
It has to be using one or more of the front cameras. If the autopilot material on the Tesla website bears any resemblance to reality, the side cameras can not see directly in front of the car.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I know. But Muhammad said that EAP could use 2 front cameras instead of 3. So I was asking if that was possible?
Yeah, I was just theorizing, since I haven't seen any documentation that says which are used. 2 forward and 2 rear facing side could potentially work as well, but if the diagram on the website is fairly accurate, that would still leave a fairly large blind spot on each side.
EDIT: I originally interpreted your question to be does it not need at least one of the forward cameras, but re-reading it, I guess you might have been asking if it could use only 2 of the 3. I'm not sure it needs all 3 forward cameras.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
EAP does not need the B pillar cameras IMO since those point straight out at a 90 degree and are probably more useful for seeing cross traffic at intersections (A FSD requirement but not an EAP one). The rear facing side cameras would be enough for EAP to see blind spots, I think.
There are numerous cases where government laws limit liability for manufactures. Wonder if this will eventually be one of them.
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