FSD going up 8/16

[daniel]

It's one thing to treat people who purchased at two different times, based on two different pricing structures, differently. My issue is with inducing people to pay $5k for a set of features at the time of purchase, based on the statement that those same features would cost $7k later. With it costing $6k to upgrade if you hadn't purchased EAP and $3k to upgrade if you had, that means that people who didn't buy EAP are getting a price cut by waiting to add the features, whereas they essentially promised the reverse.

Where I disagree with the above is that I don't think that "FSD" will be worth it for a long time. I have EAP and it was worth every penny I paid for it at the time of purchase of the car. If "FSD" meant that the car would actually drive itself without a human in it, or with the human taking a nap in the back seat, or a child being driven home from school, I would pay whatever they wanted to charge.

But "FSD" apparently means NoA/city at Level 2: eyes on the road and fully alert at all times. I'd pay more to upgrade my EAP to Level 3 than I would to get NoA/city at Level 2.

Tesla is being dishonest when it calls its Level 2 NoA/city package "FSD" because people who don't read TMC are going to think that "FSD" means FSD, and it does not. Remember, Musk sold FSD as "The car will drive itself without you in it." We're nowhere near that.

My Model 3 was worth every penny I paid for it with EAP. I'll buy FSD when it moves up to Level 3: Eyes off the road, hands off the wheel. That still won't be what FSD means or what Elon promised, but they can charge me whatever they like for that and I'll pay it.

 

[timk225]

How many years now has Tesla been collecting money on FSD that doesn't exist? And now they want to raise its price? Quite a racket they got going on there!

 

[ElectricEel]

How many years now has Tesla been collecting money on FSD that doesn't exist? And now they want to raise its price? Quite a racket they got going on there!

I honestly would pay 10k for FSD if the car drove its self. But I feel bad for everyone buying FSD for EAP features.

 

[Knightshade]

How many years now has Tesla been collecting money on FSD that doesn't exist? And now they want to raise its price? Quite a racket they got going on there!

The FSD they are selling now (and have been for months) does exist and includes a list of specific, working, features.
(with more to come)

 

[daniel]

The FSD they are selling now (and have been for months) does exist and includes a list of specific, working, features.
(with more to come)

Yeah, because they stopped selling EAP and made people pay for FSD if they want EAP features. But "FSD" is like "Red Delicious apple." It is the most vile-tasting apple in the store. It is mealy and nearly inedible. The name is a lie. "FSD" is not full self-driving. It's enhanced autopilot plus a promise of a few more features "real soon now" which will still be Level 2 (full driver attention required at all times) for at least the next 3 to 5 years, maybe more.

FSD is a pig in a poke. The name is a lie because "FSD" does not get you a care that fully drives itself. And this is doubly sad because EAP is the best thing there's ever been. Knowing what I know now, I'd have paid double what I did for it. But a lot of people paid for FSD believing Musk when he promised that the car would drive itself with nobody in it. And now if you want EAP you have to buy the more expensive FSD package which is just EAP plus vaporware.

 

[daniel]

P.S. If my car got totaled and I had to get a new one, I'd get AP but not FSD, because I seldom use the added features of EAP over AP.

 

[Knightshade]

The name is a lie. "FSD" is not full self-driving.

See also-

Peanuts aren't really nuts (they're legumes)
White chocolate isn't really chocolate (no cocoa nibs)
Fireflies aren't flies- they're beetles!
Koala bears aren't bears- they're marsupials!
We park on driveways but drive on parkways!
Guinea pigs aren't pigs at all, they're rodents!
Jellyfish aren't even fish, they're cnidarians! (likewise starfish ain't fish!)
Strawberries aren't even berries- but bananas ARE berries!



It's almost like you have to do a minute of research to understand what a thing is beyond just looking at the name...weird!

 

[Rachmaninov]

NJ has a sales tax (6.625) exemption for electric car purchase.

If I buy FSD with the car I’ll save $397 over buying it at a later date.

 

[Leafdriver333]

I am waiting for a la carte sale so that I can buy the simple summon.

 

[willow_hiller]

I am waiting for a la carte sale so that I can buy the simple summon.

My guess is that when actual FSD features are available (not just migrated EAP features), Tesla will consider splitting it back into separate packages. AP (standard), Enhanced AP, and FSD. That way, drivers who don't want to pay an arm and a leg for FSD can upgrade themselves to the same level as the original EAP purchasers.

 

[Leafdriver333]

My guess is that when actual FSD features are available (not just migrated EAP features), Tesla will consider splitting it back into separate packages. AP (standard), Enhanced AP, and FSD. That way, drivers who don't want to pay an arm and a leg for FSD can upgrade themselves to the same level as the original EAP purchasers.

My Christmas wish is a Tesla sale of AP + straight summon for $2000.

I see that you decided to purchase AP for $3000..

 

[jebinc]

My prediction is it won’t go up in price until they are ready to deliver some real, non BETA, functionality. I don’t think that will happen by 8/16. Not sure Enhanced Summon would be enough...

 

[Octo]

My prediction is it won’t go up in price until they are ready to deliver some real, non BETA, functionality. I don’t think that will happen by 8/16. Not sure Enhanced Summon would be enough...

They’ll release traffic sign / lights recognition and a Level 2 version of city driving, requiring you to hold on to the steering wheel and make the final decision. Musk will hype the hell out of it, people who think that FSD is just like peanuts nuts-legumes will go gaga over it and feel like David Hasselhoff in the 80s.

I’m hoping that my Model 3 (it’s got HW3) will get a neural net that isn’t constantly confused by the world. I’ll be a happy camper if that happens.

 

[willow_hiller]

My Christmas wish is a Tesla sale of AP + straight summon for $2000.

I see that you decided to purchase AP for $3000..

We had a 1,300 mile roadtrip at the start of July, and I really didn't want to do it without auto-steer. And we've got a few more road trips coming up this summer.

I know the price of AP is eventually going to drop. I imagine the uptake rate post-delivery is pretty low. But even if it dropped by $1,000 to match the standard price, it was worth $1,000 to have it this summer.

 

[jebinc]

They’ll release traffic sign / lights recognition and a Level 2 version of city driving, requiring you to hold on to the steering wheel and make the final decision. Musk will hype the hell out of it, people who think that FSD is just like peanuts nuts-legumes will go gaga over it and feel like David Hasselhoff in the 80s.

I’m hoping that my Model 3 (it’s got HW3) will get a neural net that isn’t constantly confused by the world. I’ll be a happy camper if that happens.

I’m with you on those thoughts, 100%! I have HW3 as well. Sharing my unhyped real word experience below.

"Lane Keep Assist" - Telsa vs. Subaru Eyesight (My experience)

 

[Leafdriver333]

We had a 1,300 mile roadtrip at the start of July, and I really didn't want to do it without auto-steer. And we've got a few more road trips coming up this summer.

I know the price of AP is eventually going to drop. I imagine the uptake rate post-delivery is pretty low. But even if it dropped by $1,000 to match the standard price, it was worth $1,000 to have it this summer.

If I was using my car this summer for long road trips I might have purchased it for $3000 also.
I don't really need AP. I cannot justify even $2000 for my need.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

NJ has a sales tax (6.625) exemption for electric car purchase.

If I buy FSD with the car I’ll save $397 over buying it at a later date.

Not sure you’ll really be saving anything.

Most likely even if FSD goes up in price, it will quickly come down in price again when they can’t get any takers at that price. Does not make a lot of sense to pay $6k for level 2 assistance.

Might be worth $2-3k, but I guess we’ll all see what the price settles to in about a year or so, once the first beta features have had a few months of real world use.

 

[Leafdriver333]

Not sure you’ll really be saving anything.

Most likely even if FSD goes up in price, it will quickly come down in price again when they can’t get any takers at that price. Does not make a lot of sense to pay $6k for level 2 assistance.

Might be worth $2-3k, but I guess we’ll all see what the price settles to in about a year or so, once the first beta features have had a few months of real world use.

I don't know how you came to $3000 worth.
But I read somewhere that to equip a car like waymo the cost is $10k. I guess that price includes the software.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I don't know how you came to $3000 worth.
But I read somewhere that to equip a car like waymo the cost is $10k. I guess that price includes the software.

Sure but that is not what Tesla is doing. The $2k is just the max I would be willing to pay, so I figure it is probably worth less than that as a level 2 FSD aid. Just a guess for the approximate market-clearing price.

 

[daniel]

See also-

Peanuts aren't really nuts (they're legumes)
White chocolate isn't really chocolate (no cocoa nibs)
Fireflies aren't flies- they're beetles!
Koala bears aren't bears- they're marsupials!
We park on driveways but drive on parkways!
Guinea pigs aren't pigs at all, they're rodents!
Jellyfish aren't even fish, they're cnidarians! (likewise starfish ain't fish!)
Strawberries aren't even berries- but bananas ARE berries!

It's almost like you have to do a minute of research to understand what a thing is beyond just looking at the name...weird!

Peanuts aren't really nuts but they taste like nuts to me. White chocolate, like "Red delicious apple" is a marketing lie. Nobody's trying to sell me fireflies or koala bears or guinea pigs or sea jellies.

Elon Musk promised that FSD-equipped cars would drive themselves without anybody in them. He promised that my car had all the hardware needed for that and implied that I could upgrade my car to that some time while I still owned it. I am educated enough on the subject, and well-enough aware of Musk's chrono-optimism, that I didn't buy that particular pig in a poke. I am happy with my car which was worth every penny I paid for it with EAP. But a lot of potential car buyers believed Musk when he said the FSD-equipped car would drive itself with nobody in it. That's very different from calling the most vile apple in the world "delicious" or calling sea stars and sea jellies "fish."

My prediction is it won’t go up in price until they are ready to deliver some real, non BETA, functionality. I don’t think that will happen by 8/16. Not sure Enhanced Summon would be enough...

AP is still beta, all this time after it was introduced. The functions in the "FSD" package will be beta and Level 2 for at least 5 years. I'll be interested to see if Enhanced Summon will really be able to drive around inside a parking lot to pick you up. (If they release it as part of EAP I'll have it, but probably never use it because it seems massively lazy to want my car to pick me up, rather than me walking to it.) I can imagine a car with Enhanced Summon causing a road block in a parking lot because it sees everything as an obstacle and is unwilling to creep ahead to grab an opening.