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FSD increasing by $1K 11/1/19

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If you want to pay $7000 for a beta
A beta that already kicks the butt of everything else available for purchase, beta or not, and is getting better every month? Often the nominal competition being at similar pricing (although that's a hard comparison to make on $ because of how different manufacturers lay out their option and pricing structures).

Darn tooting I am glad I did, all day long.
 
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Reading this thread, I don’t get the impression that people want something for free. What many (if not most) are saying is that, for them, FSD in its current state isn’t worth what Tesla wants for it, and are skeptical of Tesla’s FSD timeline.

Some are saying that. True.
Many are saying and or implying that it’s not with the money charged now, and you can bet they will say the same thing when it’s done.
So here’s the thing. Say they charge $2,000 for FSD beta now. (Like many are saying should be done). Do they invoice us all $6,000 more when it’s complete ?

No way. :). They will be saying they should pay $2,000 now and then ALSO automatically get FSD later when it’s ready.
So how will Tesla recoup the many millions if they sell it for $2,000 now. .....?
 
Still don't get it:
- Making it more expensive, will not sell more..

Not if you have a monopoly on that feature and people's perceived value is more than the costs.

Smart Summons was put out as a feature in which it was just safe enough and that it could handle ordinary situations just good enough.
Within a few days it has been used ove 500,000 times. All this data is being used to make Smart Summons better. Elon already said that a major update is coming in a few weeks with Smart Summons being so much better: "..smooth as silk"
This is how it will work with other features of FSD. I think Tesla has learned very much of how to implement data - uploaded from practical situations - into a new update. They have become much more effective and efficient in that regard. You will start seeing software updates more frequently (as you see lately already)

The features will become more and more features that other manufacturers cannot replicate. They just don't have the knowhow and data.
 
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For me, it’s not worth it, especially since I change cars often. That FSD extra would have to be paid by me too frequently so my cost of using it would be too high. Now if they made a membership option that I can port to my next Tesla purchase I’d consider it for sure. Or even a monthly membership. Something that follows the driver instead of the car would get my interest. If you plan to own your car for several years than buying it up front works well. If not you’re paying 8k+ every 3-4 years.
Anyway, this company has shown that they will leave a lot of money on the table while not making any on a quarterly basis so I don’t expect any serious attempt to monetize hardware already in their products.
 
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Reading this thread, I don’t get the impression that people want something for free. What many (if not most) are saying is that, for them, FSD in its current state isn’t worth what Tesla wants for it, and are skeptical of Tesla’s FSD timeline.

Agreed. I might have splurged for FSD if I really thought it would be fully functional anytime soon. As it is, I’m not sure it will exist during the lifetime of my 2019 M3 (~5 years and then sell/trade it). Even if FSD came out tomorrow, it will likely face years of regulatory and legal battles.

I sell software for a living. I have no problem paying for it. However, it has to have value for its customer. Right now FSD just isn’t worth it (for me). I like driving my car and I don’t trust self driving car tech just yet. There’s just too many fringe cases that haven’t been worked out. However, I would be willing to pay a smaller price ($1000?) and have AP allow user initiated lane changes without disengaging.
 
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Some are saying that. True.
Many are saying and or implying that it’s not with the money charged now, and you can bet they will say the same thing when it’s done.
So here’s the thing. Say they charge $2,000 for FSD beta now. (Like many are saying should be done). Do they invoice us all $6,000 more when it’s complete ?

No way. :). They will be saying they should pay $2,000 now and then ALSO automatically get FSD later when it’s ready.
So how will Tesla recoup the many millions if they sell it for $2,000 now. .....?

That's actually not a bad idea. They could sell the current implementation for 2k, and v11 could be 2k more, and so on. with 8k buying a lifetime licence.

On the flip side, as issues arise, it may not be feesable for them to backport a fix into an old version since only the latest will be able to handle the problem. And that makes this type of software sale unusable for a car, even though it works fine for something like photoshop.
 
Interesting marketing point, should the FSD option cost the same price ($6k)

for a Base Model 3 (about $40k) or a top of the line Model X (about $120k) ?

FSD's functionalties would be basically the same, but the perception between a 15% versus 5% additional cost

for a high volume versus low volume car, would be certainly different.

It's marketing (price) 101. But you have missed the elephant in the room: the top selling cars in the US list for <$20k. (Of course, no one pays sticker.) As the Model 3's battery pack alone costs ~$8k, and then add in say, $7k for FSD......do the tires become optional? :p

If Elon wants to make a dent in air pollution, he has to get the costs of his base/entry level model down so the masses can buy one. Otherwise, he'll have to be content to compete in the upscale market (Audi, BMW and Mercedes) initially, and then turn into a niche player with robo-taxis.
 
It's repulsive to see all the bitching. He announced that price increase months ago. He gave AP/AS/TACC away on the base models. He delivered on the $35k EV. He even gave us EAP owners extra time to buy the 3.X hardware upgrade and the full future automation at $3k. But now it's "Yo, Elon baby, I want it all cheaper, and it sucks".

If it sucks so bad, why do you even want it? And I'm sorry, but if you don't think the automation is worth $6-$8k out of a $50k car's price tag, you should stick to cheaper stuff.

You watched this man do the impossible, come out with the first new American cars in ages, with the most innovative design and the most advanced automation, while all the media mocked and knocked him. You got a flying saucer for the price of a prehistoric gas-guzzler, and now you curs join this pack of hyenas to grind and bitch and moan ?

Shame ! America doesn't deserve Tesla. If this goes on and the Chinese acquire Tesla and dominate the world automotive market, it will serve you right. Only it won't be so funny.
.

Lmao, that rant is obnoxious. Tesla was made for efficiency, first of all, not to be expensive. Now your logic is that since the car is $50k, people should be able to shell out $7k for a software, dude I'm sorry you are far removed from the science of reasoning. No one here said that Elon Musk hasn't done great with innovation and piloting a great car, but anyone should know that paying 7k for software especially one that isn't even remotely complete is doing themselves an injustice. By the way when the novelty wears off, i promise you wont even remember its there.

Your first paragraph is not relatable.
 
For me, it’s not worth it, especially since I change cars often. That FSD extra would have to be paid by me too frequently so my cost of using it would be too high. Now if they made a membership option that I can port to my next Tesla purchase I’d consider it for sure. Or even a monthly membership. Something that follows the driver instead of the car would get my interest. If you plan to own your car for several years than buying it up front works well. If not you’re paying 8k+ every 3-4 years.
Anyway, this company has shown that they will leave a lot of money on the table while not making any on a quarterly basis so I don’t expect any serious attempt to monetize hardware already in their products.
The “carrying FSD with you” approach would be a great idea for Tesla to consider - especially for those who bought it prior to real level 3-5 autonomy is delivered. Just makes sense as by that time those that bought FSD yesterday or today may not have their current Tesla by the time level 3-5 actually arrives.
 
It's marketing (price) 101. But you have missed the elephant in the room: the top selling cars in the US list for <$20k. (Of course, no one pays sticker.) As the Model 3's battery pack alone costs ~$8k, and then add in say, $7k for FSD......do the tires become optional? :p

If Elon wants to make a dent in air pollution, he has to get the costs of his base/entry level model down so the masses can buy one. Otherwise, he'll have to be content to compete in the upscale market (Audi, BMW and Mercedes) initially, and then turn into a niche player with robo-taxis.
The Model 3 isn't that car. That's the Gen 4 car (I think I've seen some new nomenclature for this?) coming after the Y and the pickup, in about 3-5 years. Musk/Tesla has been talking about that as the ultimate goal for over a decade now, target price of $20K for the base variant.

And it won't have an $8K battery pack. It'll be more like $4K. My guess is about 45kWh at just over $85/kWh, it'll be a Corolla level compact with just enough range to get by on a modest road trip inside the SC network once every couple years, but really more aimed at being that urban commuter/taxi vehicle. That's the big tipping point economically, in my estimation, $85/kWh battery packs. That's when the sticker price economics completely flip BEV over ICE across all vehicles, and the lower backend operating cost is the kicker that kills basically all new ICE purchases in the US and lots of other places, and it won't even matter what it ultimately does to the gasoline prices in the short-term as the HC fuel industry goes into a death spiral.

Tesla might not even be alone when they bring that. There could potentially be other manufacturers that make it through the winnowing coming up that arrive there around the same time. For example VW is now headed that way in a big push, although approaching from a different direction.
 
I don't buy (at all) the idea that Teslas will be self-driving robo-taxis within the next five years, and very probably not within the next ten years. Viewed as better driver-assist software, what they're doing is interesting, and attractive for a lower price, but not what they're charging. Sorry, Elon. I'm gonna have to pass on the current value proposition. I'll take another look next year, though, and see what you have to offer then.
 
Lmao, that rant is obnoxious. Tesla was made for efficiency, first of all, not to be expensive. Now your logic is that since the car is $50k, people should be able to shell out $7k for a software, dude I'm sorry you are far removed from the science of reasoning. No one here said that Elon Musk hasn't done great with innovation and piloting a great car, but anyone should know that paying 7k for software especially one that isn't even remotely complete is doing themselves an injustice. By the way when the novelty wears off, i promise you wont even remember its there.

Your first paragraph is not relatable.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
Thought we’d try AP and Auto Steer today on L.A. freeways considering the new software.

The car made three abrupt aborted lane changes when it was more than halfway into the next lane. There were no cars in proximity. The wife exclaimed “WTF!”

Later, I disengaged Auto Steer and engaged AP in stop and go traffic. Braking to a stop, and accelerating from a stop were quite jerky. I decided to disengage and drive myself as it was much smoother.

I also tried Auto Park whereby the right stalk button is pressed twice to engage the software...press forward on the screen...exit the car and it parks itself in the garage. It worked today whereas it didn’t work yesterday. So that’s something. I’d happily pay $1000 for ala carte Self Parking/Parallel Parking/Perpendicular Parking.
 
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For me, it’s not worth it, especially since I change cars often. That FSD extra would have to be paid by me too frequently so my cost of using it would be too high. Now if they made a membership option that I can port to my next Tesla purchase I’d consider it for sure. Or even a monthly membership. Something that follows the driver instead of the car would get my interest. If you plan to own your car for several years than buying it up front works well. If not you’re paying 8k+ every 3-4 years.
Anyway, this company has shown that they will leave a lot of money on the table while not making any on a quarterly basis so I don’t expect any serious attempt to monetize hardware already in their products.

Right, if it stayed with my account, I’d pay it.

I already paid $8k once and decided to trade after 1 year. Poof it’s gone. Pay another $6k or $7k now. Got essentially nothing useful from it. No way. Real, useful FSD probably wont be ready for 5 more years. I’ll probably trade again by then.

Good chance another sale pops up by then as well.
 
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Thought we’d try AP and Auto Steer today on L.A. freeways considering the new software.

The car made three abrupt aborted lane changes when it was more than halfway into the next lane. There were no cars in proximity. The wife exclaimed “WTF!”

Later, I disengaged Auto Steer and engaged AP in stop and go traffic. Braking to a stop, and accelerating from a stop were quite jerky. I decided to disengage and drive myself as it was much smoother.

I also tried Auto Park whereby the right stalk button is pressed twice to engage the software...press forward on the screen...exit the car and it parks itself in the garage. It worked today whereas it didn’t work yesterday. So that’s something. I’d happily pay $1000 for ala carte Self Parking/Parallel Parking/Perpendicular Parking.

To reduce some jerkiness, try it on Chill mode.

Do you have EAP/FSD with auto-lane change? Or was this just regular AP, without auto-lane change?
 
Well, then, it's just a matter of what it's worth to each of us. And I fully agree that as a post-purchase option it should belong to the user, not the car. I'm not rich. The whole Tesla purchase is a stretch financially, but I'm already in.

I had EAP, which means I already had everything the automation does right now. THAT costing $5k was unquestionably worth every penny to me.

On the "FSD" option (and I understand that to mean incrementally self-driving) I wasn't biting at $6k more, because that meant $11k total. Musk got it and offered it to us at $3k, or $8k total. So I was OK to add that $3k, to get the 3.X hardware and the features that will go with it for years. And I believe that other EAP owners would also do well to take advantage of that $3k offer.

=== What about non-EAP folks? =====

Now, for people that have the basic AP/AS/TACC - that Tesla maybe too generously included in the base model - adding $6k to add, at the moment, "only" NOA, Park and Summon may look high. But a total $6k for all M3 automation present and future is a no-brainer. It's even $2k less than what I paid.

If I were buying another Model 3 or Y, personally I wouldn't dream of splurging on dual motors, some extra range, Performance, plastic wraps or clear bras, but I wouldn't dream of not adding the full automation, the "FSD" package. A monster vehicle at $45k.

Why? Because after weeks learning to use NOA effectively, it's something I now use every day to advantage. And looking at the rate at which the NOA and Summon and Self-Park have evolved since December 2018, I extrapolate and conclude that I do want everything that comes next in the next year or two or five. Your extrapolation may vary.

To someone who's only "given it a try" and has been put off by shortcomings, it may not be instantly convincing. You'll be back. To someone on a short-term lease, or someone who's a devoted gearhead manual driver, it may not be worth it at all. An SR+ (with a third party $100 subwoofer) is a phenomenal value at $39k, and a remarkable car. Peace.
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p.s. As to why Musk included as much AP in the base models, I think it's to honor his promise of a $35k smart EV. Hats off to him.
 
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^ It's always been 8k for fsd.

Old pricing: 5k eap, 3k fsd

Pricing earlier this year: 3k ap, 5k fsd

Current pricing: 2k ap (built into car price), 6k fsd

I paid 3k for ap in march, so if I buy fsd at $6k, I'd already paying 9k for both, and 10k next month.

I think the best deal was the limited time discount. My coworker got eap for 2k, and had the option to get fsd for 3k, he passed on it, but I think he regrets it now.
 
Well, then, it's just a matter of what it's worth to each of us. And I fully agree that as a post-purchase option it should belong to the user, not the car. I'm not rich. The whole Tesla purchase is a stretch financially, but I'm already in.

I had EAP, which means I already had everything the automation does right now. THAT costing $5k was unquestionably worth every penny to me.

On the "FSD" option (and I understand that to mean incrementally self-driving) I wasn't biting at $6k more, because that meant $11k total. Musk got it and offered it to us at $3k, or $8k total. So I was OK to add that $3k, to get the 3.X hardware and the features that will go with it for years. And I believe that other EAP owners would also do well to take advantage of that $3k offer.

=== What about non-EAP folks? =====

Now, for people that have the basic AP/AS/TACC - that Tesla maybe too generously included in the base model - adding $6k to add, at the moment, "only" NOA, Park and Summon may look high. But a total $6k for all M3 automation present and future is a no-brainer. It's even $2k less than what I paid.

If I were buying another Model 3 or Y, personally I wouldn't dream of splurging on dual motors, some extra range, Performance, plastic wraps or clear bras, but I wouldn't dream of not adding the full automation, the "FSD" package. A monster vehicle at $45k.

Why? Because after weeks learning to use NOA effectively, it's something I now use every day to advantage. And looking at the rate at which the NOA and Summon and Self-Park have evolved since December 2018, I extrapolate and conclude that I do want everything that comes next in the next year or two or five. Your extrapolation may vary.

To someone who's only "given it a try" and has been put off by shortcomings, it may not be instantly convincing. You'll be back. To someone on a short-term lease, or someone who's a devoted gearhead manual driver, it may not be worth it at all. An SR+ (with a third party $100 subwoofer) is a phenomenal value at $39k, and a remarkable car. Peace.
.
p.s. As to why Musk included as much AP in the base models, I think it's to honor his promise of a $35k smart EV. Hats off to him.
I agree and like your post. I just ordered my MX yesterday. I paid the $6,000 for the ESP as a reason I bought Tesla. I love what it can do already and am looking forward to more capabilities.

On road trips, I am usually driving and like the thought of being able to look around at the scenery a little more.

I also would be commenting to work. I could be in rush hour traffic also not having to constantly be ready to hit the brakes. The Tesla would help me in both cases.

I would think FSD accomplished if it only worked on freeways without my input or having to shake the wheel to show that I was paying attention. To have FSD take away the tedious parts of driving is all I want. To me to be able to take a nap on the freeway on a trip or in rush hour traffic while the car did the boring stuff is all I want for $6,000. I think that will happen while I own my car. If not, I will enjoy being able to look around once in a while and not worry so much about ending up in a ditch.

Tesla is still king of the road.