FSD is a fraud

[TessP100D]

So, I get what you’re saying and in the , am not trying to dismiss what is your personal experience or comfortability, or preference…just adding some contrast, in that I’ve the refreshed S and have been driving it for nearly a week now.

So, my experience has been/is, that there is a relatively small learning curve/muscle memory that has to be stepped over for some of the new features. BUT…where things like the removal of turn stalks in favor of push button turn indicators are concerned…once you’ve stepped over than muscle memory, the way the Yoke is set up for turns, is actually….Excellent, more intuitive, more conveniently located, requires less movement and energy and time and is..a wonderful innovative change.

You will have to experience it to truly appreciate the subtle benefit I suppose, but it really is MUCH easier and more logical than the use of an old school turn stalk.

in life, we get used to what we get used to and in this, I really do think it’s simply a matter of all of us having grown up for years having it be one and only one way and therefore, we’ve thought that best.

It’s ..actually…not (in my opinion now).

Yes..different.

Yes, muscle memory stands in the way for a few times initially, but ultimately…better none the less.

Being able to fully see the screen in front of the yoke (versus trying to look over or under or through the steering wheel) is just…wow. Great and So nice to not have that annoyance anymore.

Initating FSD or turning it off now is super convenient and you can configure as literally one push.

It’s right at your thumb and honestly, once ur familiar, NONE of the stuff needs taking ur eyes off the road and is quicker and better than say, how you initiate FSD on the 3 or Y or old school stalk style of the older version S or X

For freeway driving and faster driving where your turns have less overall span, the Yoke is just…better and joy, the ONLY area I think IS more of adjustment and you have to learn a “little” different way of doing things (or being more aware until you do) is with the slower sweeping turns where your doing hand over hand on the wheel;

and for which the yoke is fully capable, but you just need to figure out for you, what way you like best to hold as you turn (whether your palming the yoke or going hand over hand or, etc.)

Getting out of the car though IS a bit weird now, as..I never realized (till the yoke) that I apparently (historically) would grab the top of the steering wheel normally to aid in my exit. Not there (lol).

The yoke is just stupid.
tesla needs to offer as a standard feature a round steering wheel and stalk controls. All standard.
FSD is a fraud and will never happen. Tesla needs to stop right now … any attempt to change the cars into some pre-FSD mode.

 

[Shinobi'sZ]

The yoke is just stupid.
tesla needs to offer as a standard feature a round steering wheel and stalk controls. All standard.
FSD is a fraud and will never happen. Tesla needs to stop right now … any attempt to change the cars into some pre-FSD mode.

I agree 100%. Having just traded my C8 in on the Tesla Plaid and still owning a C7Z and having taken both on road courses and HPDE, the Plaid yolk is a joke. That is the first thing most other high performance car owners have asked me and I'm honest when I give feedback about things based on my experience and ownership, not just what I read on the internet or hear from somebody else reading on the internet. The C8 steering wheel is the best steering wheel I have ever placed my hands on. The only other place I have used a yolk is flying co-pilot in an airplane. If you look at a high performance aircraft...they don't use a yolk either they use a stick. If Tesla called today and said would you like a standard steering wheel replacement for the Yolk I would say gladly. I have been driving the Plaid with the yolk now for over a week and it is cumbersome to manage in some circumstances. Fine when driving in a straight line and managing corners at speed...not so much in day to day traffic handling sharp slow speed turns and u turns. Example I was making a U turn on the green light and a driver pulled up on the other side of the intersection to make a free right (which happens frequently) turning into my lane, I had to quickly adjust to avoid hitting the car making a free right. It meant I had to rapidly change the steering wheel positions when in full clock....it was challenging and I have been to race driving schools and tracked different cars for many years. It's only a matter of time until it causes and accident with an inexperienced driver.

 

[FunSecured]

Where FSD is concerned, your word means zero in it being “fraud.” If it were, years ago, civil actions would have been filed and would have been successful. They haven’t. Moreover, a Great Many, like myself, both use and appreciate these FSD feature set and use it every day. I’ve purchase and use with our Model 3, Our Model Y, Our Molde S and will use it again when our Cybertruck comes. Your a “hater” and it’s unfortunate, as -your- opinion doesn’t equal consensus.

 

[TessP100D]

Where FSD is concerned, your word means zero in it being “fraud.” If it were, years ago, civil actions would have been filed and would have been successful. They haven’t. Moreover, a Great Many, like myself, both use and appreciate these FSD feature set and use it every day. I’ve purchase and use with our Model 3, Our Model Y, Our Molde S and will use it again when our Cybertruck comes. Your a “hater” and it’s unfortunate, as -your- opinion doesn’t equal consensus.

FSD is a fraud. Your car doesnt have FSD. It’s some beta version half ass system that doesn’t work. FSD is level 5 no hands no intervention. Tesla is at Level 2. What dont you understand about that?

 

[TessP100D]

FSD is a fraud. Your car doesnt have FSD. It’s some beta version half ass system that doesn’t work. FSD is level 5 no hands no intervention. Tesla is at Level 2. What dont you understand about that?

I love the down votes.

can you show me where your car is level 5?

can you show me where Tesla admitting they are level 2 is wrong?

can you show me where FSD isn’t some half ass beta version?

can you show me anything?


im waiting.…..


yea that’s what I thought.

 

[CyberGus]

FSD is a fraud. Your car doesnt have FSD. It’s some beta version half ass system that doesn’t work. FSD is level 5 no hands no intervention. Tesla is at Level 2. What dont you understand about that?

"Fraud" requires malicious intent. Neither "irrational exuberance" nor even incompetence rise to the level of "fraud".

 

[TessP100D]

"Fraud" requires malicious intent. Neither "irrational exuberance" nor even incompetence rise to the level of "fraud".

Tell that to the thousands of people who got suckered by Elon.

and to all the people who’s cats are old, sold or about to be sold and lost ALL THEIR MONEY.

hopefully your not one of those.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I love the down votes.

can you show me where your car is level 5?

can you show me where Tesla admitting they are level 2 is wrong?

can you show me where FSD isn’t some half ass beta version?

can you show me anything?


im waiting.…..


yea that’s what I thought.

You basically ignored the response you got and repeated the same thing. Basically there are people that bought FSD that are satisfied with the current features nor did they expect the car would have level 5 (even in the most optimistic order description in 2016, it suggests features that L4 would satisfy, not L5). They changed the order page a couple times, so depending when you ordered your car, you would have different expectations of FSD. Long story short, plenty of owners don't feel it's a fraud, so they will disagree with your opinion.

 

[drtimhill]

FSD is a fraud. Your car doesnt have FSD. It’s some beta version half ass system that doesn’t work. FSD is level 5 no hands no intervention. Tesla is at Level 2. What dont you understand about that?

Though FSD is certainly MIA atm, Tesla has never claimed it was L5, so saying its a fraud because it isnt L5 is silly.

 

[BrandonLive]

FSD is a fraud. Your car doesnt have FSD. It’s some beta version half ass system that doesn’t work. FSD is level 5 no hands no intervention. Tesla is at Level 2. What dont you understand about that?

I dislike their use of the name “FSD”, but it was never ever defined as “level 5”. Presumably it was/is meant to achieve at least L3 or probably L4, though.

Today it is of course L2. Even the “FSD Beta” stuff is, for the moment, L2.

They certainly have the intent, and belief, that they can deliver an L3+ mode, so I don’t think “fraud” is an appropriate word. However, I do think they owe something to people who paid for the FSD upgrade, especially those who upgraded from EAP and received nothing for it before selling their cars.

 

[FunSecured]

FSD is a fraud. Your car doesnt have FSD. It’s some beta version half ass system that doesn’t work. FSD is level 5 no hands no intervention. Tesla is at Level 2. What dont you understand about that?

What I don’t understand is the venom you spout in the way you speak. I’m not sure what happened to you (as a child?) but as an adult, it’s materialized itself into an angry man child that can’t respect the opinions of others and thinks himself as right because he’s right.

As articulated in detail earlier, my experience with FSD is favorable, enjoyable and is something I’ve used for years.

While it’s not perfect, it keeps getting better and features like City Streets are examples of where Tesla is going to continue to both revolutionize and iterate.

Since I’m at it, I also love the Yoke steering, now having used it for several weeks and find the things like the turn indicators more conveniently located and easy to use than turn stocks.

There is -nothing- difficult about turning using the yoke (despite what people try to throw on the wall) and at higher speeds, I much prefer.

The looks are great and it completely frees up the viewing area.

If you don’t agree, no problem, that’s fine….but the way you disagree is poison, mean spirited and needless.

There, in fact, ARE those, like me, that like the Yoke and like FSD and definitely DONT see it as fraud, but rather..awesome and enjoyment and use…daily…within its limitations and benefits.

 

[helvio]

Age old internet advice: don't feed the trolls

 

[Tundrok]

Age old internet advice: don't feed the trolls

So you are of the mind that most online forum disagreements involve “trolls”. People really gotta stop perpetuating the idea that people who make negative comments are trolls. God forbid someone accept the fact that many people literally do have opposing views that aren’t just expressing them to be irritating. This attitude is becoming more prevalent than actual trolling

 

[helvio]

So you are of the mind that most online forum disagreements involve “trolls”. People really gotta stop perpetuating the idea that people who make negative comments are trolls. God forbid someone accept the fact that many people literally do have opposing views that aren’t just expressing them to be irritating. This attitude is becoming more prevalent than actual trolling

I did not accuse anyone of being a troll. That's on the receiver's end. But I for one think a forum like this is a great place for discussions, and if you're not sharing news or willing to achieve something from talking, then you're in the wrong place and should be writing for your own blog instead.

 

[Terminator857]

... Tesla needs to stop right now … any attempt to change the cars into some pre-FSD mode.

What makes you say that?

 

[PorthosJon]

I did not accuse anyone of being a troll. That's on the receiver's end. But I for one think a forum like this is a great place for discussions, and if you're not sharing news or willing to achieve something from talking, then you're in the wrong place and should be writing for your own blog instead.

Well said sir. Posting accusations and vitriolic language is incompatible with civil discourse, which is the purpose of a community.

My only comments are that I was well aware of what I purchased, when I purchased it. Beta is beta is beta is beta. When I plopped my money on the counter, I knew what I was buying. Terminology not withstanding, I would love to be in the v9 Beta, but I'm not, nor was it ever promised to me. I very much enjoy driving my vehicle, and enjoy using the AP+ features that Tesla has termed FSD. Would I love some more transparency on timelines? sure. But that doesn't mean that I don't have exactly what I expected when I purchased my vehicle a month ago.

 

[drtimhill]

So you are of the mind that most online forum disagreements involve “trolls”. People really gotta stop perpetuating the idea that people who make negative comments are trolls. God forbid someone accept the fact that many people literally do have opposing views that aren’t just expressing them to be irritating. This attitude is becoming more prevalent than actual trolling

The problem is, being a ”troll” is related to intent. Someone might be very insistent and passionate about a (genuine) position, while someone else might just be deliberately taking an extreme position to provoke anger and frustration in others … the very definition of a troll. So it’s tricky, based on a few posts, to figure out who is a troll and who is genuine (if passionate). Trolls eventually give themselves away (and are easily exposed by posting a “probe” post to see if they simply take a contrary position).

 

[Cyberax]

"Fraud" requires malicious intent. Neither "irrational exuberance" nor even incompetence rise to the level of "fraud".

No, "fraud" does not require malicious intent. It's still a fraud to sell tickets to a rocket ship to Alpha Centauri that is to be launched next year, even if you firmly believe it's possible.

 

[Cyberax]

Though FSD is certainly MIA atm, Tesla has never claimed it was L5, so saying its a fraud because it isnt L5 is silly.

Incorrect. Tesla claimed just that up until March 2019 or so.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

If they don’t start releasing at least SOME of the beta features to us “regular” FSD buyers, I would start calling this a fraud. There is a lot of useful stuff the beta has that I would love to use on a daily basis.