FSD is unavailable now due to error in defeat device detected

[Strasso57]

While driving on a highway using FSD beta with my full attention, sometimes lightly holding the steering wheel and sometimes not, I received enough "hands on defeat device detected", warnings in error, then the "grab the steering wheel" alert, to get enough strikes to kick me out of FSD.
I did not nor will ever have a "defeat device".
These warnings came out of nowhere.
If anything, it's mistaking my hand resting lightly on the steering wheel as a cheat device.
How can I challenge this FSD removal?
My account at TESLA has no support options, just FAQ's.
Help, please.
Thanks,
D

 

[eli_]

You must have an extraordinarily steady hand.

 

[Strasso57]

Yes, for about .003 seconds. LOL

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

While driving on a highway using FSD beta with my full attention, sometimes lightly holding the steering wheel and sometimes not, I received enough "hands on defeat device detected", warnings in error, then the "grab the steering wheel" alert, to get enough strikes to kick me out of FSD.
I did not nor will ever have a "defeat device".
These warnings came out of nowhere.
If anything, it's mistaking my hand resting lightly on the steering wheel as a cheat device.
How can I challenge this FSD removal?
My account at TESLA has no support options, just FAQ's.
Help, please.
Thanks,
D

Someone has to get video of these events. Seems like a bug with this release.
I do wonder if they are being primitive enough with their detection that simply looking for binary “hand on wheel” plus direction results in false strikes for defeat device if someone is torquing wheel one direction for more than 10 minutes on a straight road (or whatever the detection period is) with no other inputs.

Certainly some of the detection appeared to be really primitive based on some experiments earlier, specifically the requirement for counter-torque for nag satisfying which is just very odd and suggests only binary torque sensing capability, and none of the variable torque-sensing capability and sophisticated pattern matching required for differentiating a weight from a steady hand.

Anyway we need videos. I would not be surprised if their detection is very primitive at this point. It’s really a huge letdown.

Or it could just be a terrible bug and it’s not properly detecting changing torque state.

Your vehicle has a cabin camera so it is not that…

If possible provide more details on the specific driving scenario and the lengths of time involved. Have you had any other warnings in the car or unresolved issues with seat occupancy sensors, cabin camera, or seat belt sensors? I doubt any of those things, though, since it specifically flags the torque issue.

 

[whisperingshad]

Turn off nagging as long as cabin camera sees driver's eyes on road, would be the best fix...and how it should be

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Turn off nagging as long as cabin camera sees driver's eyes on road, would be the best fix...and how it should be

Yep pretty easy (for a human looking at the video feed) and even with sunglasses quite easy to tell from head tilt, except for a committed cheater who puts their distracting device in the HUD position (which while incredibly dangerous is arguably way better than having gaze somewhere else, since at least peripheral vision might pick up something sometimes if eyes have line of sight to the road).

 

[JulienW]

Someone has to get video of these events. Seems like a bug with this release. ....

Had it happen to me twice (just warnings) on Beta/NoA stack in NOV lane. Both times I wasn't paying full attention and got an audible warning to torque wheel. As soon as I torqued the wheel it immediately put up the "Defeat Device Detected" warning. Anecdotally: it seems the late audible warning to torque wheel and the instant torquing set it off. Never happened while normal torquing after first visual warning.

Again only 2 instances for me so not much of a data point.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Had it happen to me twice (just warnings) on Beta/NoA stack in NOV lane. Both times I wasn't paying full attention and got an audible warning to torque wheel. As soon as I torqued the wheel it immediately put up the "Defeat Device Detected" warning. Anecdotally: it seems the late audible warning to torque wheel and the instant torquing set it off. Never happened while normal torquing after first visual warning.

Again only 2 instances for me so not much of a data point.

Which version? I am still stuck on last year’s Christmas release because I complain so much I guess.

I’ve never ever had an audible warning to torque the wheel though (except in cases of construction or other high uncertainty where the little red hands also come out). So maybe this existed on prior version (my version 2022.44.25.5)?

 

[JulienW]

44.30.5. If I remember correctly it is something like:

1. Black labeled warning to put hands on wheel
2. Slow blue flashing screen
3. Fast blue flashing screen
4. Audible chime with blue flashing screen

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but pretty sure it has always chimed once it passes the first 3.

Edit: yes it does chime. Here is from the manual.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

44.30.5. If I remember correctly it is something like:

1. Black labeled warning to put hands on wheel
2. Slow blue flashing screen
3. Fast blue flashing screen
4. Audible chime with blue flashing screen

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but pretty sure it has always chimed once it passes the first 3.

Edit: yes it does chime. Here is from the manual.

View attachment 892035

Thanks. Interesting to know about how this progression works. I think I have only ever seen/progressed to step three once or twice, if ever (don’t really know).

Seems possible this defeat device erroneous detection issue only showed up in .30.5 even though the detection existed in earlier versions. Welcome to FSD Beta, I guess, for some folks.

 

[Thp3]

I had the ”defeat device detected” message while driving on the expressway. It flashed the message, beeped a noise, and told me to take over control. I did that for a few miles and then just restarted FSD. No problem.

I think it happened twice more, but I was always able to restart FSD, so I thought I’d check strikes when I got home.

I checked for number of strikes under Software the next day, but there are not any.

Confusing, but just annoying.

I think I’ve seen it on both the Model Y and the Model 3 with different firmware. The Model 3 has not been driving on the expressway, but rather on four lane state roads.

 

[SageBrush]

I gave up on FSD after a day of trial, in part for exactly that described in the OP: Car complaints I was not holding the wheel even though I was.

I later read that there is a way to hold the wheel that satisfies the Nanny, but I don't remember the detail and in any case, I like to hold the wheel another way.

 

[Habdo]

The same thing happened to me and the car gave me my 4th strike. It keeps happening now with every drive I take and I always end up disengaging the FSD on fear of getting my 5th strike. I sent an email to FSD but got no response. I think unless enough people complain, the message will never get through.
I was wondering if anyone else has the same problem with this annoying warning "hands on defeat device detected"

 

[joenathan]

I had the ”defeat device detected” message while driving on the expressway. It flashed the message, beeped a noise, and told me to take over control. I did that for a few miles and then just restarted FSD. No problem.



I think it happened twice more, but I was always able to restart FSD, so I thought I’d check strikes when I got home.



I checked for number of strikes under Software the next day, but there are not any.



Confusing, but just annoying.



I think I’ve seen it on both the Model Y and the Model 3 with different firmware. The Model 3 has not been driving on the expressway, but rather on four lane state roads.

It has to happen 3 times on the same drive for a strike.

 

[ChimpledPot]

Or if you had the shitty update from a month ago, you'd get a strike with ZERO warning.

 

[Yelobird]

While driving on a highway using FSD beta with my full attention, sometimes lightly holding the steering wheel and sometimes not,

I think the “sometimes not” might be your bug. Just sayin

 

[yessuz]

While driving on a highway using FSD beta with my full attention, sometimes lightly holding the steering wheel and sometimes not, I received enough "hands on defeat device detected", warnings in error, then the "grab the steering wheel" alert, to get enough strikes to kick me out of FSD.
I did not nor will ever have a "defeat device".
These warnings came out of nowhere.
If anything, it's mistaking my hand resting lightly on the steering wheel as a cheat device.
How can I challenge this FSD removal?
My account at TESLA has no support options, just FAQ's.
Help, please.
Thanks,
D

cover the camera lense which is above rear view mirror

 

[JulienW]

cover the camera lense which is above rear view mirror

....or you could eat chicken for dinner. At least if you eat chicken instead of covering the camera it will still allow you to engage FSD Beta.

 

[PACEMD]

....or you could eat chicken for dinner. At least if you eat chicken instead of covering the camera it will still allow you to engage FSD Beta.

Chicken, humm....... don't believe I've tried that one. Taste anything like snake?

 

[SalisburySam]

Does this mean v2022.30.5 is a version of FSDb? I ask because that version has been downloaded to my Model 3. I bought EAP/FSD when I got the car but have not enrolled in Beta. If I install, do I get Beta anyway?