Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

FSD - Level 2

This one line from the Tesla / California DMV emails needs to be fully explained.

As such, a final release of City Streets will continue to be an SAE Level 2, advanced driver-assistance feature
Eric C. Williams, Associate General Counsel, Regulatory (Tesla)
Dec. 14, 2020

All the promises from Tesla. The PR videos and talks from Elon. So many things have been said about what is going to happen and what the cars will do. Driving fully from your house to work, across the country, etc. All that comes down to this. Level 2.

That is all they are prepared to give us. That is what they consider is the end point to satisfy the requirements of FSD. Yes, they may/will develop further, but they could stop here. Level 2.

I'm sure they will continue to throw out promises and expectations. At this point they have not even started on Level 3 development in the legal sense in California. They may realize they cannot get Level 3+. Who knows? They may come up with a new HW 4 car, or acquire technology from a company that achieved Level 3+ and then add that hardware to the new car models. But it seems they will be done with everyone who bought FSD by giving them.. Level 2

That's what it looks like to me. They seem to have draw the line in the sand. Either string out FSD Beta forever, or just stop at Level 2 - with the obligatory "it's going to be Level 3+ very soon". Nobody has called their bluff, and at this point I think they have laid their cards down. That's their end point.
I have a friend who has FSD beta. He has driven around the city. Says it’s flawless.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: diplomat33

diplomat33

Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Aug 3, 2017
8,770
12,464
Terre Haute, IN USA
I have a friend who has FSD beta. He has driven around the city. Says it’s flawless.

I am glad your friend has a great experience with FSD Beta. But there are plenty of videos of FSD Beta messing up. So it is clearly not flawless. Plus, Tesla says it requires constant driver supervision. So Tesla does not consider it to be flawless.
 

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,656
2,018
Kitchener, Ontario
I am glad your friend has a great experience with FSD Beta. But there are plenty of videos of FSD Beta messing up. So it is clearly not flawless. Plus, Tesla says it requires constant driver supervision. So Tesla does not consider it to be flawless.
I’m really glad you’re here for everyone to make sure the negative side of Tesla’s efforts and progress are always top of mind.
 

gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,612
3,418
Seattle, WA
I have a friend who has FSD beta. He has driven around the city. Says it’s flawless.
Ask your friend if he would let a family member get in the passenger seat and let the car drive itself with nobody in the drivers seat for 20 miles to a Wal-Mart. Any damage to any vehicle or person is completely on him.

If not, it isn't flawless.
 

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,656
2,018
Kitchener, Ontario
I know you are being sarcastic. But saying that FSD Beta is flawless is absurd and false. It's not negative to point out that truth.
I think the person that posted that, was referring to the run he had in the city that day. I think we’re all smart enough to know this wasn’t stated to mean, it’s complete and flawless. :)
Come on guys, I know you want to find kinks in Tesla when ever you can, but let’s read into a thread with a little context huh.
 

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,656
2,018
Kitchener, Ontario
Ask your friend if he would let a family member get in the passenger seat and let the car drive itself with nobody in the drivers seat for 20 miles to a Wal-Mart. Any damage to any vehicle or person is completely on him.

If not, it isn't flawless.
I think the person that posted that, was referring to the run he had in the city that day. I think we’re all smart enough to know this wasn’t stated to mean, it’s complete and flawless. :)
Come on guys, I know you want to find kinks in Tesla when ever you can, but let’s read into a thread with a little context huh.
 

gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,612
3,418
Seattle, WA
I think the person that posted that, was referring to the run he had in the city that day. I think we’re all smart enough to know this wasn’t stated to mean, it’s complete and flawless. :)
Come on guys, I know you want to find kinks in Tesla when ever you can, but let’s read into a thread with a little context huh.
There is no context to indicate that this thread is discussing only the last drive anyone had. We have a someone coming in and saying this:

I have a friend who has FSD beta. He has driven around the city. Says it’s flawless.

I think most English readers would interpret that as "it is flawless in general" not "it was flawless on the last drive but I am making no statements about how good it is in general." If the poster meant "He drove it around the city today. Said that drive was flawless" then they should have said that, not blaming the reader for picking up on supposed context.

This whole "listen to what they mean, not what they said" seems very familiar with people that defend Elon's statements as well.
 

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,656
2,018
Kitchener, Ontario
There is no context to indicate that this thread is discussing only the last drive anyone had. We have a someone coming in and saying this:



I think most English readers would interpret that as "it is flawless in general" not "it was flawless on the last drive but I am making no statements about how good it is in general." If the poster meant "He drove it around the city today. Said that drive was flawless" then they should have said that, not blaming the reader for picking up on supposed context.

This whole "listen to what they mean, not what they said" seems very familiar with people that defend Elon's statements as well.

I’ve found from posts like this, that folks biased against Elon or Tesla, for financial reasons, or are in the auto industry, or had a bad experience with their car, will always interpret a post negatively if it in any way supports their “Get back at Tesla” cause as per above. :)
I think anyone would know the poster was not implying FSD is always flawless.

Anyone that didn’t have a biased belief they could use this to spin in this thread of course. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: mark95476

gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,612
3,418
Seattle, WA
What if my "bad experience with my car" is paying for FSD in 2016 based on a video, and now 54 months later all I have for that is it stopping for stop lights? Seems pretty relevant.
Thanks for the Ad Homenim attack though.

I do have to chuckle at the idea of someone saying "Say's its flawless" then in your mind can lead you to literally say "I think anyone would know the poster was not implying FSD is always flawless.". English, what a way to communicate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sharps97

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,656
2,018
Kitchener, Ontario
What if my "bad experience with my car" is paying for FSD in 2016 based on a video, and now 54 months later all I have for that is it stopping for stop lights? Seems pretty relevant.
Thanks for the Ad Homenim attack though.

I do have to chuckle at the idea of someone saying "Say's its flawless" then in your mind can lead you to literally say "I think anyone would know the poster was not implying FSD is always flawless.". English, what a way to communicate.

Okay then. If you feel the need to believe someone out there is under the full belief that FSD is flawless all the time, and ready for level 5 autonomy. Have at it bud. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikes_fsd

BeeGood

Member
Jan 27, 2020
199
157
Georgia
It does not really matter what we assume.
As the matter of fact, Honda got certified for Level 3 (and Waymo already has limited clearance for fully autonomous driving for two years or so, in commercial application though), while Tesla recently admitted that Level 3 certification is not in close plans even.

I mean...all Honda really accomplished here is Basic Autopilot plus Auto Lane Change and *conditionally* removing the nag. And it’s only available in Japan.

My guess is that the liability issue is less of a problem in Japan. I’m sure there are reasons why neither Tesla nor Honda are doing this in North America and Europe that have nothing to do with what either company is technically capable of.
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
10,588
92,133
Maple Falls, WA
I own stock, so I want them to do even better than they have been. To me, it seems their execution and Elon’s tweet strategy has not been flawless.

I invested in a company with flawless strategy once...

Oh, snap! No I didn't, that would be a lie! The closest I've ever come would have to be TSLA and it would be pretty disingenuous of me to complain about flawed strategy or execution. But, yeah, nothing is ever perfect.
 

mark95476

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
2,067
1,589
Bay Area CA
This Honda L3 system seems a bit underwhelming considering they're a large global manufacturer with a very good reputation for building a lot of good vehicles.

I remember Audi released an L3 system years ago in their A8 sedan. It's not available in the states and I haven't heard anything about it in years.

Agreed. Liability is why Tesla will nag the driver every 30 seconds on AP when we all know the vehicle can drive itself for significantly longer. There are plenty of YouTube videos and stories of people doing just that using tricks and defeat devices. Whenever a Tesla gets in an accident, the first question is whether it was driving on AP. There are many people, some call themselves "fans" who claim they only want the best for Tesla, that want Tesla to fail.


I mean...all Honda really accomplished here is Basic Autopilot plus Auto Lane Change and *conditionally* removing the nag. And it’s only available in Japan.

My guess is that the liability issue is less of a problem in Japan. I’m sure there are reasons why neither Tesla nor Honda are doing this in North America and Europe that have nothing to do with what either company is technically capable of.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BeeGood
It always flabbergasts me when people accuse anyone even slightly critical of Elon, Tesla, or a Tesla product as "want[ing] Tesla to fail" or are somehow "biased" against the company. In my experience, it is the fanboys that are completely out of touch with reality, supporting everything Tesla and Elon does and says without question or critical thought. Most of the people I see complaining about the progress of FSD and where it is are actual Tesla/FSD owners that paid thousands of dollars years ago for a product promised as "coming soon" (end of 2018, end of 2019, end of 2020, March 18 of 2021, etc.) and are now disillusioned with FSD as a product and/or regret their FSD purchase. It doesn't mean they hate Elon, or hate their Tesla, or wish the company ill will. I use to think that a lot of people who own Teslas are engineers and would naturally view any technological product with a critical eye, but given the number of fanboys on this forum and others, I may have been wrong about that.
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top