FSD Money better given to a charity

[lynnpt2001]

Well, here goes. Been in FSD Beta for quite a while, have about 36,000 miles driven and a lot on FSDB. The version I have now is Horrible and Dangerous. Never have I seen so many dangerous moves by this car. The frequent hard braking is getting to be unbearable. Several close calls where the car nearly drove into the side of other cars, especially in the city environments. I usually am very tolerant and easy going but today I did a 2+ hour drive, mainly interstate in normal traffic, with several unexpected hard braking incidents with no other cars near by. Driving on a two way single lane road to my house, same road for years now, constant light brief braking just about every time another car is approaching. I have lost any hope the REAL FSD is coming in the near or distant future. It is simply intolerable and if I had the resources I would hold Tesla accountable. I know many of you will say "but it is beta" and I understand this is what we signed up for but these close calls are too close for any comfort and the frustration level is getting unbearable. I wish I would have use the money for something more important that may have helped other people than some pipe dream that my car could drive on it own. I know I am not the only one who is experiencing these issues and concerns and many of you are seeing the same results. Just needed to vent a bit, today was not a pleasant experience by any means...

Just purchased a MX Plaid 2 months ago and I am so glad I did not opt for FSD...

 

[Dewg]

Just needed to vent a bit, today was not a pleasant experience by any means..

That sounds terrible. I feel bad you had that experience.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

I know many of you will say "but it is beta" and I understand this

I think the problem is that Elon is a software developer by trade as are the FSD code writers. They know what "beta" means. It means that it is not for public use for any purpose - it is only for hackers and tweakers who want to experiment and contribute to the code development.

But the general population is so accustomed to buggy initial software releases (often downplayed as "betas") from every sector that they aren't fazed by the term. And the fact that "FSD Beta" is so expensive and so effortless to purchase makes it seem even less like a real "beta" which is traditionally free and only available to the most qualified users.

They really should have labeled it "Experimental partial driver assist ALPHA test code" and required an intense interview and driving test screening process to select only the most valuable contributors to be testers.

 

[KArnold]

It will be "beta" forever, just like the windshield wipers. I'm not suggesting it's not great tech or that Tesla won't achieve their FSD goals. I'm only suggesting Tesla is misusing the words "beta" and "full self driving" as a crutch chasing the almighty dollar - customer be damned. They have zero incentive to remove the beta label, ever.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

This latest FSDb software version is awful. On the bright side, FSDb did brake to let a rabbit cross the road last night. It might just have been coincidence though?

 

[2101Guy]

The tide continues to turn…

 

[Rikster]

I understand how scary the current version of FSDb can feel! But from a slightly different perspective, from someone who recently received FSDb for the first time, I still find it "magical" in many ways, flaws and all.

I purchased FSD fully understanding that it is not, and will probably never be Full. Self. Driving. I bought it so I could experience the cutting edge of car automation, with the hope that it would prove to be a useful driver assistance feature. And now that I have it, I can honestly say I'm so excited to drive my car every day! I find myself making excuses to drive new places just to see how well FSDb will do. I get so excited thinking about the release of V11 and all of next year's releases.

I've only been using this "driver's aid" for about 2-3 weeks, but I've already become very aware of what things it does flawlessly and reliably, and which things require extremely close supervision. When I drive to one of my frequent locations, I now know exactly when to take over driving myself and when I can relax more and let FSDb do it's thing. For me right now, about 80% of my driving time is comfortable and "magical," and about 20% of the time FSDb is hesitant, jerky, dangerous, etc. (so I disengage during those times).

My supposition is that with each subsequent software release, this Safe/Scary ratio will improve a bit more (though I understand it will be 2 steps forward and 1 step back each time, so a new learning process with each release). I can envision a time in the next year or 2 when 95-98% of my driving time will be "magical" and comfortable, and that's good enough for me!

$15,000 is a preposterous amount of money for this software right now, I fully agree. But on a $100k+ car, it's a relatively small percentage of the price of the car, and for me enhances the overall experience of the car enough to be worth it.

 

[2101Guy]

I understand how scary the current version of FSDb can feel! But from a slightly different perspective, from someone who recently received FSDb for the first time, I still find it "magical" in many ways, flaws and all.

I purchased FSD fully understanding that it is not, and will probably never be Full. Self. Driving. I bought it so I could experience the cutting edge of car automation, with the hope that it would prove to be a useful driver assistance feature. And now that I have it, I can honestly say I'm so excited to drive my car every day! I find myself making excuses to drive new places just to see how well FSDb will do. I get so excited thinking about the release of V11 and all of next year's releases.

I've only been using this "driver's aid" for about 2-3 weeks, but I've already become very aware of what things it does flawlessly and reliably, and which things require extremely close supervision. When I drive to one of my frequent locations, I now know exactly when to take over driving myself and when I can relax more and let FSDb do it's thing. For me right now, about 80% of my driving time is comfortable and "magical," and about 20% of the time FSDb is hesitant, jerky, dangerous, etc. (so I disengage during those times).

My supposition is that with each subsequent software release, this Safe/Scary ratio will improve a bit more (though I understand it will be 2 steps forward and 1 step back each time, so a new learning process with each release). I can envision a time in the next year or 2 when 95-98% of my driving time will be "magical" and comfortable, and that's good enough for me!

$15,000 is a preposterous amount of money for this software right now, I fully agree. But on a $100k+ car, it's a relatively small percentage of the price of the car, and for me enhances the overall experience of the car enough to be worth it.

Nope. It should do exactly everything the CEO has said it would do by this time/date. Everything. And its FAR from doing that. Far.

That said? For those who feel its worth $15k? Thats great. For you.

 

[sleepydoc]

I agree the last FSD version regressed a bit but the overall trend has been upward, albeit slower than all of us would like.

@lynnpt2001 - I’ll counter your argument with another one - anyone who can afford a Tesla can also afford to give some money to charity. If you can’t then you shouldn’t be spending that much on a car. One could also argue that a better route would be to purchase a less expensive car and give the difference to charity.

Cars are a necessity in the U.S. but as a car a Tesla is a luxury item and FSD is also a luxury. By definition is more than one actually needs and can do without.

 

[Operator64]

36,000 miles on FSDb and I would guess you have used many different versions over that time, this one is terrible because of things it does, why do you continue to use it if it’s so bad and not wait for another update? Just curious

 

[Phlier]

Elon did make a huge mistake (multiple times, in fact) by trying to assign any timeline to solving a problem that has literally never been solved before.

But if we can get past that for a sec, can we just take a minute to realize that Tesla is well on their way to solving a problem that has literally never been solved before?

The attitude you take along this journey is yours to decide; you alone have the ability to either be a curmudgeon, cheer leader, or anything in between. YOU get to decide if you're bitter, disappointed, excited, whatever. YOU choose your attitude, no one else.

Regardless of how bitter you are about broken past promises, buggy/dangerous software, the fact that it doesn't "drive right" as defined by your own personal expectations, etc. etc. et freaking cetera, the software will be done on the day that it is done.

There will always be disappointing updates, regressions that frustrate, slow progress, broken promises, pushed back release dates, events that make you think "what is it doing now?" All of these issues are just how software development goes. How these problems effect your attitude is, again, yours to decide.

Happy, sad or indifferent, your attitude doesn't affect anything but yourself and those that are exposed to you. But in the long run, it doesn't matter. Again, the software will be done on the day it is done, regardless of how you feel along the way.

You alone are responsible for how you feel until that day. Wouldn't you rather just kick back, relax, and enjoy the ride?

I'm not exactly sure why people would expect a flawless execution of solving a problem that has never been solved before. Did people honestly not expect there to be exactly the problems we have encountered?

 

[Rikster]

Elon did make a huge mistake (multiple times, in fact) by trying to assign any timeline to solving a problem that has literally never been solved before.

But if we can get past that for a sec, can we just take a minute to realize that Tesla is well on their way to solving a problem that has literally never been solved before?

The attitude you take along this journey is yours to decide; you alone have the ability to either be a curmudgeon, cheer leader, or anything in between. YOU get to decide if you're bitter, disappointed, excited, whatever. YOU choose your attitude, no one else.

Regardless of how bitter you are about broken past promises, buggy/dangerous software, the fact that it doesn't "drive right" as defined by your own personal expectations, etc. etc. et freaking cetera, the software will be done on the day that it is done.

There will always be disappointing updates, regressions that frustrate, slow progress, broken promises, pushed back release dates, events that make you think "what is it doing now?" All of these issues are just how software development goes. How these problems effect your attitude is, again, yours to decide.

Happy, sad or indifferent, your attitude doesn't affect anything but yourself and those that are exposed to you. But in the long run, it doesn't matter. Again, the software will be done on the day it is done, regardless of how you feel along the way.

You alone are responsible for how you feel until that day. Wouldn't you rather just kick back, relax, and enjoy the ride?

I'm not exactly sure why people would expect a flawless execution of solving a problem that has never been solved before. Did people honestly not expect there to be exactly the problems we have encountered?

Extremely well said! This was my point also. I honestly could not care less about the things Elon says, other than to occasionally applaud his ambitious agenda and his lofty goals. Without those, none of what has been achieved would have been possible.

None of the things Elon has said in the past or will likely say in the future changes the reality of the actual car I'm driving every day, and I base my overall contentment with my auto purchase on what the actual car does for me today, not comparing the current reality to the wild promises that have been made in the past.

My cup is clearly "half full" with all the magical things this car can and does do for me day in and day out, and I don't spend a top of energy lamenting all the things it "should do by now" based on things Elon has promised.

Honestly, if all of Elon's statements had proven to be 100% accurate, the cost of FSD today would not be $15k, but likely many multiples of that amount.

So anyway, count me as someone very excited by this product today, and someone who is definitely looking forward to the continued improvements and refinement of this new technology that I believe we'll see in the future!

 

[UncleCreepy]

I'd give him $19,500 CAD "beta money" (i.e., no real money) to play with his toy, but as long as he can't deliver I'm not paying. Frankly I believe he knows that the system will never work reliably but he raked in so much money that he can't admit it without causing a landslide. My guess is that when he declares that it's not in beta anymore it will still be the same flawed product but he will state that it was never meant to work unsupervised. I could never see the hype anyways. AP is included and does most of the job. Now he wants me to waste >$22k CAD (including tax) so I don't have to do manual lane changes? No thanks. And the other crap like auto park belongs into the toy box section. Anyone can park the car in less than half the time that the computer needs.

 

[Supcom]

I'd give him $19,500 CAD "beta money" (i.e., no real money) to play with his toy, but as long as he can't deliver I'm not paying. Frankly I believe he knows that the system will never work reliably but he raked in so much money that he can't admit it without causing a landslide. My guess is that when he declares that it's not in beta anymore it will still be the same flawed product but he will state that it was never meant to work unsupervised. I could never see the hype anyways. AP is included and does most of the job. Now he wants me to waste >$22k CAD (including tax) so I don't have to do manual lane changes? No thanks. And the other crap like auto park belongs into the toy box section. Anyone can park the car in less than half the time that the computer needs.

It's perfectly good strategy to wait for the product to mature to a point you like before buying the product. It's a trade off between risks, cost, schedule and performance. Early buyers of FSD reduced their cost risk by assuming huge schedule and technical risks. In retrospect, the schedule risk was realized and performance risk is still in question. In your case, you are unwilling to risk performance and schedule, so you assume the cost risk of a higher offering price at the time you deem FSD to have acceptable performance.

We all accept schedule risk since there are no available alternatives today with the capabilities of FSD. I.e., you can't pay extra to get it sooner from Tesla, or anyone else.

There is, of course, a risk you assume that the price Tesla charges for FSD will be too high once you deem it good enough. Of course, there's also the possibility that another company will deliver an equivalent product sometime in the foreseeable future that could apply competitive price pressure to Tesla. I certainly expect this to happen eventually, given as much money is being thrown at the problem. The question is how far down the road that will be.

 

[cianciolop]

They should be paying us to test FSD.

 

[Supcom]

They should be paying us to test FSD.

Why? There are some 200,000 of us FSD licenees willing to test it in exchange for early access.

 

[clydeiii]

Nope. It should do exactly everything the CEO has said it would do by this time/date. Everything. And its FAR from doing that. Far.

Why? You realize this tech has never been created before? It might be impossible given current tech? But at least Tesla is trying, unlike most other auto manufacturers.

 

[bnsfengineer]

Elon did make a huge mistake (multiple times, in fact) by trying to assign any timeline to solving a problem that has literally never been solved before.

But if we can get past that for a sec, can we just take a minute to realize that Tesla is well on their way to solving a problem that has literally never been solved before?

The attitude you take along this journey is yours to decide; you alone have the ability to either be a curmudgeon, cheer leader, or anything in between. YOU get to decide if you're bitter, disappointed, excited, whatever. YOU choose your attitude, no one else.

Regardless of how bitter you are about broken past promises, buggy/dangerous software, the fact that it doesn't "drive right" as defined by your own personal expectations, etc. etc. et freaking cetera, the software will be done on the day that it is done.

There will always be disappointing updates, regressions that frustrate, slow progress, broken promises, pushed back release dates, events that make you think "what is it doing now?" All of these issues are just how software development goes. How these problems effect your attitude is, again, yours to decide.

Happy, sad or indifferent, your attitude doesn't affect anything but yourself and those that are exposed to you. But in the long run, it doesn't matter. Again, the software will be done on the day it is done, regardless of how you feel along the way.

You alone are responsible for how you feel until that day. Wouldn't you rather just kick back, relax, and enjoy the ride?

I'm not exactly sure why people would expect a flawless execution of solving a problem that has never been solved before. Did people honestly not expect there to be exactly the problems we have encountered?

I believe your first sentence is what most people including myself are tired of blatantly being lied to by Elon. He reminds me of some politicians that just can't keep their mouth shut. Your post is spot on!