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FSD & Phantom Braking

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I have not had a chance to find out if there has been an improvement with the just released 2022.4.5.20. First drive seems to be a step back and jerky on normal driving. I only had 4 reportable abnormalities on a 18 mile drive yesterday. The last February 18th version was no better at phantom braking, but this version lists:

"- Improved the precision of VRU detections by 44.9%, dramatically reducing spurious false positive pedestrians and bicycles (especially around tar seams, skid marks, and rain drops). This was accomplished by increasing the data size of the next-gen autolabeler, training network parameters that were previously frozen, and modifying the network loss functions. We find that this decreases the incidence of VRU-related false slowdowns."

This should specifically reduce phantom braking incidents. I am on the advanced FSD beta that is not what you get when you pay your money for FSD, but is the one if you pass the safety score and they accept you into the advanced program. I assume the normal FSD beta is still about the same, since it is not vision only (still uses radar, I think) and is likely not as updated as the version I have. We shall see....
 
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Have some of the recent FSD builds resolved the phantom braking issues? I did a monthly subscription in the past but opted out due to multiple incidents.
This doesn’t make sense.

What feature are you subscribing to that ADDS (or added) phantom braking?

There are several places the car brakes.

The most notable is TACC (on the highway). You have TACC with no subscription. Some say it still phantom brakes. Many think it’s acceptable now. It was bad a while back.

Auto Pilot - Many folks have with car and no subscription. Maybe you don’t. But it may brake over cautiously when merging traffic is possible. It does not add Phantom Braking. It brakes to let traffic in.

FSD features you get with subscription- Namely Nav on Auto Pilot. Doesn’t really add any kind of braking. Other than it may make a poor choice that causes AutoPilot to merge. Which can cause braking.

If you use TACC or AutoPilot in the city. Good luck. It’s not supported and never has been. Except with FSD Beta (see below). Very confusing naming.

FSD also includes the option to join FSD Beta. Which ONLY adds city driving. It can break a lot. Most are disappointed it’s not further along. Pace is pretty slow. And yes it can kill you or someone else. Usually when it does brake, wrong as it may be, it’s obvious why it did.

Phantom braking is when, for no “clear” apparent reason. It hits the brakes. Harsh sun, shade etc. has caused phantom braking. If you repeat the same spot it may behave differently. This was TACC thinking you could collide with something. Everyone had TACC.

Which is it?
 
FSD is beta, FSD to join is also FSD beta -- this is why I refer to it as advanced FSD beta. There is no FSD which is not Beta. We have tree lined roads in Kentucky. I think the advanced FSD vision only sees tree shadows as obtsacles, particularly when they are in a line. Also, I can be driving down a divided, 4 lane road in the country with no shadows, and no other cars on my side of the road, and the car will phantom brake about every 10 miles. This also happens on Interstates, but less often. I haven't tested this with the latest version I got a couple of days ago, but there is a particular place where the car will try to get into the left turn lane, that is clearly marked, going the 55 MPH speed limit, when the NAV on Autopilot is set to continue straight ahead to the destination. Also, today I notice a couple of places where the speed limit changed from the posted 55 MPH to 25 MPH and then back to 55MPH within 100 yards or so. They have improved the car's reaction, as it use to brake, now it just coasts. This is a problem, because when the speed limit is actually reduced, the car just coasts until it reaches the lower speed. This is ticket-making behavior. There is so much more.... ANY other manufacturer can get basic dynamic cruise control down without these issues, even with lane changing capabilities. ONLY Tesla has these issues.
 
One other thing, Advanced FSD Beta adds vision only, where they disable the radar. The standard FSD beta still uses the radar, or did up until mid-February. They are shipping new S cars without radar, but I think they have a different software update series, if they have been updated at all since they were delivered. It will be soon when they remove using the radar from existing S models, if I missed it recently happening. I have been looking for this confirmation since the newest refresh began production last month.
 
One other thing, Advanced FSD Beta adds vision only, where they disable the radar. The standard FSD beta still uses the radar, or did up until mid-February. They are shipping new S cars without radar, but I think they have a different software update series, if they have been updated at all since they were delivered. It will be soon when they remove using the radar from existing S models, if I missed it recently happening. I have been looking for this confirmation since the newest refresh began production last month.
Ok you are confusing things further with your own “advanced” names.

The phantom braking is not eliminated by using radar. TACC and Collision avoidance has always used cameras. Phantom braking started long before vision only systems. People keep blaming vision as the exclusive reason for phantom braking.

Auto Pilot and TACC is technically Beta. But we all understand that basic feature should work within reason. And for many it does.

I doubt OP has FSD Beta (which is why I asked to be sure) and you are bringing “Advanced” FSD Beta up a lot in your reply and discussion. Leading me to believe that’s where your gripes are regarding phantom braking. Yes if brakes a lot. How phantom it is, is up for debate.

I can’t tell if you are talking about TACC or “Advanced” FSD Beta regarding you braking fir shadows every 10 minutes. If it’s FSD Beta file a bug, opt out or turn it off.

But TACC (Radar armed or not) shouldn’t phantom brake (regardless of what Tesla continues to label it). Many find it fine. But they are outliers. But when people pull FSD Beta into the discussion it totally confuses the the discussion.
 
I am not saying anything about "radar" or "vision only" causing the problems I have. I was just mentioning that was a difference between FSD and advanced FSD. I have had these issues before I was accepted into the " advanced" beta FSD. It happens and happened with both versions of hardware and software, and I am talking about when FSD of any flavor is engaged. I am saying since 6/2020, FSD does not work as well as my 2014 Mercedes dynamic cruise control as far as going down the road, staying in the lane, keeping up with the traffic, and not hitting anything. FSD cannot do this.
 
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This doesn’t make sense.

What feature are you subscribing to that ADDS (or added) phantom braking?

There are several places the car brakes.

The most notable is TACC (on the highway). You have TACC with no subscription. Some say it still phantom brakes. Many think it’s acceptable now. It was bad a while back.

Auto Pilot - Many folks have with car and no subscription. Maybe you don’t. But it may brake over cautiously when merging traffic is possible. It does not add Phantom Braking. It brakes to let traffic in.

FSD features you get with subscription- Namely Nav on Auto Pilot. Doesn’t really add any kind of braking. Other than it may make a poor choice that causes AutoPilot to merge. Which can cause braking.

If you use TACC or AutoPilot in the city. Good luck. It’s not supported and never has been. Except with FSD Beta (see below). Very confusing naming.

FSD also includes the option to join FSD Beta. Which ONLY adds city driving. It can break a lot. Most are disappointed it’s not further along. Pace is pretty slow. And yes it can kill you or someone else. Usually when it does brake, wrong as it may be, it’s obvious why it did.

Phantom braking is when, for no “clear” apparent reason. It hits the brakes. Harsh sun, shade etc. has caused phantom braking. If you repeat the same spot it may behave differently. This was TACC thinking you could collide with something. Everyone had TACC.

Which is it?

There are multiple overpasses in my area and when approaching these while on the interstate, the car will brake hard when using FSD. When I opted out of the program and use the standard AP, the phantom braking does not occur.
 
There are multiple overpasses in my area and when approaching these while on the interstate, the car will brake hard when using FSD. When I opted out of the program and use the standard AP, the phantom braking does not occur.

On the expressway, why do you call it “FSD” when on Beta and when not on Beta you call it AP. FSD Beta primarily adds city street driving. On the highway it’s still AP whether you opt in or not.

FSD Bets does not make the expressway any more “FSD”.

Opting in does disable Radar (I.e. Vision) if you enable AP on the highway. But it’s always been the cameras that could trigger false braking. Radar doesn’t overrule TACC seeing an obstacle and say ignore what it thinks is a Semi crossing the road if Radar doesn’t see it.

Some “interstates” are not expressways. I typically consider expressways divided and multiple lanes in each direction with on and off ramps.

If you are on a road that is high speed, undivided and single lane in each direction, and no on and off ramps, I think that might get into a grey area as far as city street vs highway mode. I don’t think the software uses just speed to switch out of duty street mode.

The display is completely different in city street mode. When you have that display up anything is possible.

When you say you “opted out”. Did you turn city street Beta switch off? There is a switch for that but you stay on vision only. Or did you opt out of the beta program and get back on non vision firmware?
 
I have a 22m3ld. My phantom breaking issues seen to be getting worse. Using autosteer or cruise control, i get the phantom breaking every time i pass a truck on two lane highway. This also happens at night when i pass any car with headlights. I have purchased fsd beta, but i have yet been able to use it because of my safety score. No matter how gentle and safe i drive i cant get the score to go over 95. I have factory reset my car multiple times but the score always seems to go down. It says that i am hard breaking when i don't feel like i am driving improperly. I go over train tracks multiple times a day and I'm thinking that may be causing the issue. I have taken my car in to be serviced twice and they say that it will get better with time. I don't know if this is what other owners are seeing, but it is very frustrating. I guess as long as i don't go over any train tracks, pass any trucks, or pass anyone at night with lights i will be good to go!
 
Back when I was getting my Safety Score, I went on several drives in the summer without touching my brakes, and I got dinged for hard braking only using the Tesla regenerative braking -- which I can't control. It is all silly, and expensive that we paid so much for such an inferior product. I do like to play with it when I have the time, but I paid thousands for that play time.
 
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