FSD Questions

[Cookie71]

I do not have a Tesla, so obviously no FSD. However, before I order, I have some questions.

From what I understand, I must actuate FSD every time it is disabled by me or by the car. My desire is not so much to have the car take me from A to B,, but to have a car that would intervene and take corrective action if I make a mistake. In other words, I don't want to be poised with my hands near the wheel and foot hovering above the brake all the time.
Let me give you an example. My current car has Lane Keep Assist, blind spot monitoring and automatic emergency braking. However, on its best day Lane Keep Assist is confused by shadows, faint lane markings, etc. It will visually tell me when it disengages. However, everything will engage/re-engage automatically without my having to do anything.
So, the question is this. Does anything re-engage automatically without driver intervention with Tesla FSD?
Also, how much of a hassle is to to use the current FSD, including the limited release Beta, if you have to constantly re-engage it? Is my assumption correct that it will not avoid an accident if it is not engaged?

 

[ucmndd]

The safety features - lane departure warning/correction, automatic emergency braking, etc. are always on (if configured to be) and furthermore don’t even require the FSD package - they’re included/enabled with every car.

FSD is not a safety feature, but a “convenience” feature (though how convenient it actually is right now is subject to debate).

 

[derekmw]

If you actually cancel out by forcing the steering wheel passed the threshold or touch the brake, the only way for FSD to come back on is for you to turn it back on. FSD is not at a state where you can just relax and stop paying attention, yet. You still have to have your hand on the steering wheel (at least occasionally for FSD to know you're still paying attention) and be ready to take over if needed.

There is a wide range of opinions on how much of a 'hassle' it is. I think you'd have to try it out yourself to really understand whether, with the current limitations/safety measures, if FSD is worth it or not for you. Have you done a test drive yet?

 

[Tiger]

Test drive it, then you know. Don't buy without a test drive. In general, Tesla's "lane keep assist" works so much better it rarely disengages in normal situations. Furthermore, the upcoming new "4D" version will much improve from the current one.

Remember to test both Autopilot and FSD separately, as you might find FSD grossly overpriced.

 

[Tam]

...I must actuate FSD every time...

If you want Smart Cruise TACC, you need to manually turn it on (first pushing down the gear stick).

If you want Auto Steer, you need to manually turn it on (Double pushing down the gear stick).

After they are on, and if any of those is turned off, you just have to manually turn it on with your gear stick again.

At this beta level, you are babysitting the system to make sure it doesn't do anything bad. The way to monitor it is by feeling the turning torque of the steering wheel. You need to provide some counter-torque constantly. That way, if it misbehaves, you can reflexively correct the steering seamlessly.

That sounds like a lot of work but once you figure out what the system is like, you can use it as an assisting tool instead of feeling like you are servicing it.

 

[OCR1]

My desire is not so much to have the car take me from A to B,, but to have a car that would intervene and take corrective action if I make a mistake.

This is not what FSD is intended to be used for. At the moment if you are using FSD you have to be even more vigilant than if you are driving the car yourself because it’s beta software and it makes a lot of mistakes. The other safety features (lane keep, blind spot monitoring, emergency braking) are intended to reduce the likelihood of an accident while you are driving. FSD will someday drive the car for you...but we are a long way away from that happening, even with the latest round of beta software being tested.

FSD, in its current form, is simply not worth $10,000. Elon keeps raising the prices on a product which still does not do what he said it would do 3 years ago. Don’t fall for the hype. You can always add it later if he ever gets it working. For now save your $10K.

 

[Tam]

...foot hovering above the brake all the time...

You read the above about the hands, and it's not about "hovering" but about actually feeling the tactile torque of the machine automation.

Now, about the foot. Once you get used to how Tesla's system works, my foot is ready to push the accelerator for phantom brakes more than at the brakes for most situations.

I do get my brakes ready when the system is to go to a complete stop from a high speed (70MPH and cars in front with rear red lights all lit up to a complete stop on the freeway). Sometimes it brakes timely, sometimes it brakes too late for my comfort and I would manually take over in that case.

But otherwise, it brakes pretty good. You just have to learn what situations it can brake well and which not.

... everything will engage/re-engage automatically without my having to do anything.
So, the question is this. Does anything re-engage automatically without driver intervention with Tesla FSD?...

As answered above, no. Not Tesla's style. Once disengaged, the driver needs to manually turn the functions back on with the gear stick.

...Also, how much of a hassle is to to use the current FSD, including the limited release Beta, if you have to constantly re-engage it?

Not a hassle to me. It's not that hard to double click the gear stick.

However, I could see that people who are not used to beta testing might get very frustrated if they expect the car drives itself!

...Is my assumption correct that it will not avoid an accident if it is not engaged?

Correct.

 

[Marius A]

If you actually cancel out by forcing the steering wheel passed the threshold or touch the brake, the only way for FSD to come back on is for you to turn it back on. FSD is not at a state where you can just relax and stop paying attention, yet. You still have to have your hand on the steering wheel (at least occasionally for FSD to know you're still paying attention) and be ready to take over if needed.

There is a wide range of opinions on how much of a 'hassle' it is. I think you'd have to try it out yourself to really understand whether, with the current limitations/safety measures, if FSD is worth it or not for you. Have you done a test drive yet?

Just a tiny addition: you can also turn it off by pulling the gear stalk up (don't worry, it won't go into reverse if you're doing more than ~6km/h).
It's my preferred method.

 

[Fernand]

@Cookie71 Welcome to the forum. You will discover that some members proselytizing about driver assistance options being "not worth it" is a disease on this forum.

If you engage automation there are different degrees and modes, from Traffic Aware Cruise Control to Autosteer within your lane (both standard), all the way to Navigate on Autopilot where the car self-drives on freeways to a selected destination (option). A version that also does that on city streets is in preliminary release for a selected few testers under the name "FSD Early Beta". All of these are manually engaged, and do not re-engage by themselves. You need to understand what does what. I'm afraid you have to plunge into the documentation and Youtube clips. Then, after you get the picture, you should arrange for a test drive.

If your question was about what safety mechanisms are permanently engaged, there are settings to enable different defenses like lane departure warning, lane departure correction, different degrees of emergency braking. Once set, these mechanisms do not turn off. They are always active regardless of what manual or automation mode you are in.
.

 

[Marius A]

Weird use of proselytizing.

@Cookie71 some things not mentioned here. FSD is still not a thing in Teslas, you're buying a software package which is continuously updated to (hopefully) provide FSD in the future, and it follows the car.
The only difference from autopilot in today's implementation is automatic lane change (including off-ramp) on motorways using the turn signal.
Apart from that there is no automation or security feature in the FSD package which isn't in the Autopilot package.

You also get more visualisations and summon with FSD, but more visuals on-screen while driving isn't exactly a safety feature, and summon isn't driving at all so i didn't think that was relevant to your question.

 

[Knightshade]

Weird use of proselytizing.

@Cookie71 some things not mentioned here. FSD is still not a thing in Teslas, you're buying a software package which is continuously updated to (hopefully) provide FSD in the future, and it follows the car.
The only difference from autopilot in today's implementation is automatic lane change (including off-ramp) on motorways using the turn signal.
Apart from that there is no automation or security feature in the FSD package which isn't in the Autopilot package..

Above is not correct (especially with OP being in the US)

Basic AP gives you TACC and autosteer in same lane. That's it.

FSD adds lane changes as you mention (not just on freeways, though they're only car-initiated there) but other things like following route on freeways not just taking an off-ramp but being in the correct lane and handling interchanges.

It also adds autopark

It also adds stopping for stoplights and stop signs including on local roads.



(for those cars who managed to get EAP when it was offered you get all of the above too, except the stoplights/stop sign behavior which is FSD exclusive)

 

[Marius A]

Above is not correct (especially with OP being in the US)

Basic AP gives you TACC and autosteer in same lane. That's it.

FSD adds lane changes as you mention (not just on freeways, though they're only car-initiated there) but other things like following route on freeways not just taking an off-ramp but being in the correct lane and handling interchanges.

It also adds autopark

It also adds stopping for stoplights and stop signs including on local roads.



(for those cars who managed to get EAP when it was offered you get all of the above too, except the stoplights/stop sign behavior which is FSD exclusive)

Ah, my bad then. Does it stop only for red lights or for all?

Autopark I excluded because the OP was about driving assistance, but I guess it could be relevant.

 

[Knightshade]

Ah, my bad then. Does it stop only for red lights or for all?

Autopark I excluded because the OP was about driving assistance, but I guess it could be relevant.

Currently it'll stop at all stop signs, all red lights


The green light behavior is that if there's a car ahead of you going through the light it'll also go through the light (as long as it's still green of course).... If there's no lead car it'll often (but not always) go through a green as well.... this update was described as:

"in some situations where there is a straight path through the intersection, the Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control feature may no longer require explicit driver confirmation. If this occurs, the stop line in the driving visualization will turn green to indicate that the car will continue through an intersection. Confirmation is still required if your car is already stopped at the light when it turns green."


In cases where it can't do that (for example there's a green light at a T-intersection where you have to turn left or right) it will stop at the green unless you do something about it.

 

[Fernand]

The behavior at lights is evolving. Once you start using it, it feels natural, whether you have to "authorize" a go on green with a tap on the stalk, or when the car decides on its own. The current early FSD beta does it all by itself, including stopping if appropriate before making turns, and that's what all "FSD" owners expect by the end of the year.

"FSD" is rather a misnomer, inasmuch as Fully Self Driving on any road - with zero supervision (that's called Level 5) - is a long term objective, a moving target. No rush. Existing Level 5 cars like Waymo only run on limited roadways in Phoenix AZ with continuous "geomapping" of every inch of the road. The geomapping is constantly updated to servers by auxiliary vehicles equipped with special laser and optical devices. Tesla cars use GPS but figure out the roadways as they go.

Aside from EAP, which was an intermediate package that's no longer available, when you buy a Tesla you either have

A) basic Autopilot, included at no additional charge. Basic AP steers and controls speed within your lane. Or

B) that plus the "FSD" option. "FSD" takes a spoken or map-tapped destination and drives there, steering, changing lanes on its own or on driver request, passing slower cars, changing freeways, with only occasional need for manual intervention. That's called Navigate on Autopilot (NOA). It's currently working on freeways ("on-ramp to off-ramp"), with a very limited subset on city streets. By year end we expect NOA on freeways, highways, and city streets, like this.
.