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FSD Ripoff or Not?

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In order to pay that "$2,000" for FSD, you would have had to have bought enhanced autopilot, for $5,000. Your actual cost to get FSD was $5,000 + $2,000 ($7,000). I find it very misleading when people say "I paid 2k for FSD" because it doesnt talk about what they had to buy as a pre requisite.

I paid the same thing you apparently did, which was 5k for EAP and then 2k for FSD during a 3-4 week firesale in Late march / Early april of 2019, but I dont tell people I paid 2k for FSD. I tell them I paid 7k for it, and the normal price back then was 8k (5k for EAP and 3k for FSD).

That is, unless you paid 2k for FSD with no purchase of EAP back then?
At the time there was no "Autopilot" there was only "Enhanced Autopilot." It did not come with the car. I think most people bought it -- AP (as it was usually called) was one of the premier features of a Tesla back then.

Later Tesla created a sub-system called Autopilot and included it with the car price, without some features that had been in the previous AP. FSD became the only way to get those features, and the pre-purchase of self-driving.

So both views are correct. Back then EAP was the only thing you could buy, and FSD was for a short time a $2K add-on. (Only for a few weeks.) At $2K it was a better deal as it included getting HW3 eventually. From one view, I bought EAP and added FSD. From another view I bought the only AP you could get, and added FSD. In truth, for a long time FSD added very little to EAP that one would want, so really you were paying for the future feature which still is not in production.
 
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At the time there was no "Autopilot" there was only "Enhanced Autopilot." It did not come with the car. I think most people bought it -- AP (as it was usually called) was one of the premier features of a Tesla back then.

Later Tesla created a sub-system called Autopilot and included it with the car price, without some features that had been in the previous AP. FSD became the only way to get those features, and the pre-purchase of self-driving.

So both views are correct. Back then EAP was the only thing you could buy, and FSD was for a short time a $2K add-on. (Only for a few weeks.) At $2K it was a better deal as it included getting HW3 eventually. From one view, I bought EAP and added FSD. From another view I bought the only AP you could get, and added FSD. In truth, for a long time FSD added very little to EAP that one would want, so really you were paying for the future feature which still is not in production.

Yes, I remember all that, but you paid 5k for EAP to enable you to pay 2k for FSD, correct? There isnt any other way to look at it. There was no choice to buy FSD without buying EAP, so to get FSD, you had to pay 5k for EAP.

I remember it didnt add anything, etc, but since there was simply no way to purchase FSD without spending 5k for EAP first, getting FSD at that time cost 7k if that was something someone wanted to buy.
 
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Paying $15k, $10k, or even $7k and not seeing a return in the in the form of FSD beta would certainly be an issue with me. But once you start using it, it's hard to go back. Similar to going back to an ICE vehicle or to a CRT TV; it's not going to happen

I luckily received FSD beta a coupe of months after signing up for the subscription. I find the product to substantially increases comfort and safety The system has made some very quick decisions to avoid accidents that I'm convinced my reflexes would not have been able to handle

This needs to roll out across the fleet sooner than later
 
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Paying $15k, $10k, or even $7k and not seeing a return in the in the form of FSD beta would certainly be an issue with me. But once you start using it, it's hard to go back. Similar to going back to an ICE vehicle or to a CRT TV; it's not going to happen

I luckily received FSD beta a coupe of months after signing up for the subscription. I find the product to substantially increases comfort and safety The system has made some very quick decisions to avoid accidents that I'm convinced my reflexes would not have been able to handle

This needs to roll out across the fleet sooner than later
Even one-pedal driving. When I drive my friends BMW and have to use the brake pedal it takes my brain a sec to recalibrate. 😁
 
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Yes, I remember all that, but you paid 5k for EAP to enable you to pay 2k for FSD, correct? There isnt any other way to look at it. There was no choice to buy FSD without buying EAP, so to get FSD, you had to pay 5k for EAP.

I remember it didnt add anything, etc, but since there was simply no way to purchase FSD without spending 5k for EAP first, getting FSD at that time cost 7k if that was something someone wanted to buy.
No, as I said there are two ways to look at it. There was no "Autopilot" vs "Enhanced Autopilot" at that time. Most people called it Autopilot. It didn't come with the car. There was no set of features that were the difference between AP and EAP as became the case later.

At that time, it was extremely common to buy AP with the car -- not long after Tesla just made it a standard feature, but the standard feature was "basic Autopilot."

So yes, you had to buy AP to buy FSD and the total was $7K. Later it became different. There was only one FSD upgrade available for sale, and it cost $2K on top of what most people had already paid. Certainly on top of anybody who would have been interested in FSD already paid. So those of us who bought then feel we bought FSD for $2K. We didn't buy AP in order to get FSD and see it as a combined price. People who did it later might not have felt that way.
 
No, as I said there are two ways to look at it. There was no "Autopilot" vs "Enhanced Autopilot" at that time. Most people called it Autopilot. It didn't come with the car. There was no set of features that were the difference between AP and EAP as became the case later.

At that time, it was extremely common to buy AP with the car -- not long after Tesla just made it a standard feature, but the standard feature was "basic Autopilot."

So yes, you had to buy AP to buy FSD and the total was $7K. Later it became different. There was only one FSD upgrade available for sale, and it cost $2K on top of what most people had already paid. Certainly on top of anybody who would have been interested in FSD already paid. So those of us who bought then feel we bought FSD for $2K. We didn't buy AP in order to get FSD and see it as a combined price. People who did it later might not have felt that way.

By that same logic, I guess you could argue FSD is $9000 today. It just requires a $6000 EAP purchase first.
 
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By that same logic, I guess you could argue FSD is $9000 today. It just requires a $6000 EAP purchase first.
I would not just argue that, that is definitely the case. Mind you I think $6K is a bit of a rip off for EAP. The only useful feature in EAP to me is Autopark. I do use auto lane change but mostly because manual lane change is a pain, you must disengage, lane change, re-engage. It's not clear to me I would buy EAP today. I paid $5K for EAP (which was the only way to get what would become basic AP) which was pricey but I wasn't buying a Tesla without AP.

$6K for auto-park is way more than other cars. nav on autopilot I actually dislike.
 
FSD is an all but certain money maker at $15k given the endless opportunities for a 24/7 robotaxi money making business. It will change the human transportation world and the price for FSD will keep going up. Sit on sofa while making money hand over fist. At least that what I heard. :)
Are you being sarcastic? I guess you are. Robotaxi is almost certainly going to be the most competitive capital destroying endeavor since the build out of rail in the USA in 1800s. Waymo and cruise are launching paid service, before Tesla gets there waymo will have a fleet in maybe 15 of the top rideshare markets. Cruise right behind. Mobile eye right behind that. (I mean by 2025).

There goes the profit, This plethora of robotaxi options will bankrupt Uber by 2029
 
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Are you being sarcastic? I guess you are. Robotaxi is almost certainly going to be the most competitive capital destroying endeavor since the build out of rail in the USA in 1800s. Waymo and cruise are launching paid service, before Tesla gets there waymo will have a fleet in maybe 15 of the top rideshare markets. Cruise right behind. Mobile eye right behind that. (I mean by 2025).

There goes the profit, This plethora of robotaxi options will bankrupt Uber by 2029

I was poking fun at Elon's wild FSD price justification.
 
I was poking fun at Elon's wild FSD price justification.
Thank goodness! Sorry, stressful here with pouring rains keeping us from completing work and contracts requiring us to be elsewhere in 1 week. Going to have to work most of Xmas.

Very interesting to see Waymo start to move. Cruise has finally started acting like a startup, thank goodness. Mobileye needs to hurry or there will be no market. No mature industry has ever supported more than a few competitors and produced any profit. I think by the time Tesla has FSD able to hit the streets that the profits could be all gone int he largest metros.
 
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Are you being sarcastic? I guess you are. Robotaxi is almost certainly going to be the most competitive capital destroying endeavor since the build out of rail in the USA in 1800s. Waymo and cruise are launching paid service, before Tesla gets there waymo will have a fleet in maybe 15 of the top rideshare markets. Cruise right behind. Mobile eye right behind that. (I mean by 2025).

There goes the profit, This plethora of robotaxi options will bankrupt Uber by 2029
Depends who does it. Now I do agree Waymo is likely to be out there on their own for a while, maybe Cruise will come in a bit later. However, before long, one of the players that is willing to work with Uber will come along. Motional has a 10 year deal with Uber. So no, Uber won't be dead too early because you will be able to order robotaxis with it in some cities. In addition, since the robotaxi service will not (in spite of what Tesla claims) take you everywhere, you will need to occasionally supplement it with human driven service, which Uber is ready to provide.
 
Depends who does it. Now I do agree Waymo is likely to be out there on their own for a while, maybe Cruise will come in a bit later. However, before long, one of the players that is willing to work with Uber will come along. Motional has a 10 year deal with Uber. So no, Uber won't be dead too early because you will be able to order robotaxis with it in some cities. In addition, since the robotaxi service will not (in spite of what Tesla claims) take you everywhere, you will need to occasionally supplement it with human driven service, which Uber is ready to provide.
Ubers problem is that other than a few cities they lose money. Having competition in those cities will kill them, they are a money losing dog anyway
 
Is that the one that caused the 9 car collision on the Golden Gate Bridge? Or is that another FSD?
from the [brief] amount of detail I read, it looked more a case of phantom sudden braking (down to 20mph) and jackasses behind following too closely. No confirmation of FSD in use.

Also, it was the Bay Bridge, not the GGB. Best to have your details correct when you sling mud.
 
from the [brief] amount of detail I read, it looked more a case of phantom sudden braking (down to 20mph) and jackasses behind following too closely. No confirmation of FSD in use.

Also, it was the Bay Bridge, not the GGB. Best to have your details correct when you sling mud.
Yes, not only was it the Bay Bridge, but the Bay Bridge is an interstate highway, and FSD does not operate on the interstates, but switches over to Autopilot -- there is an obvious change on your screen.

Now, you may call them jackasses, and they will indeed be found at fault under the law in a rear-end, but this sort of following distance is very common on that bridge. Thus the many cars in a row.

In addition, if what Autopilot did was first cut in front of somebody and then hit the brakes, that is a rare example where the car in front can be at fault in a rear-ending.

Tesla has a new release where the highway driving is done by FSD code but it is not deployed.