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FSD Subscription coming "early 2021"

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,184
36,500
Oregon
So for it to make sense the monthly subscription price will have to be under 160$ or it will be more expensive to subscribe vs to buy.

o_O The subscription is always going to cost more per month than having it include in your loan/lease. (Elon and Zack have already flat out said this.) The advantage of the subscription is that you can end/transfer it.
 

SomeJoe7777

Marginally-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
2,191
5,685
Houston, TX
To me, it's irrelevant how much either the one-time payment is or how much the monthly subscription is, because neither buys a useful tool. I currently have EAP in both of my Model 3's and it sucks. I've attempted to use NoA hundreds of times and it fails to do something correctly within a few minutes on every attempt.

There is absolutely no way the vehicle will be anywhere near "full self-driving" within the next 5 years, if ever. My cars currently cannot:

1. Properly plan for a lane change, it always waits too long and gets trapped behind traffic.
2. See stopped traffic ahead until it has to almost panic stop.
3. See anything in the sun, because the sun blinds the cameras constantly, resulting in the error message and loss of all functions except basic lane-keeping.
4. Figure out what lane it's in, so I frequently have to move it out of an exit-only lane or manually put it back on the navigated path.
5. Figure out what the proper speed limit is, so it constantly slows down to 50 MPH while on a 70 MPH freeway.

NoA is a complete joke. It has no executive function to plan what it wants to do, it only reacts to what it's cameras can see, which is not a lot. Freshly-licensed 16-year-old drivers have far more awareness of surroundings and planning capability than NoA does.

And this is just simple freeway driving with NoA. And Elon thinks he's going to do full-self-driving on surface streets? Where there are stopped Amazon delivery vans that are blocking a lane, stopped school buses, railroad tracks without guard arms? Debris in the road that would damage the car if you ran over it? Kids playing in a field on the side of the road chasing a ball into the street?

The very notion is laughable, and the technical capability of the hardware here is orders of magnitude short of what would be needed.

$10K up front? $199 a month? He's out of his mind. It's worth zero.
 

OCR1

Active Member
Jan 28, 2018
3,760
4,118
Southern California
To me, it's irrelevant how much either the one-time payment is or how much the monthly subscription is, because neither buys a useful tool.

That has been my experience as well. We have FSD in our 2018 Model 3 and we almost never use it. My 2019 Model 3 came without even the basic autopilot, and I resisted buying it until it went on sale a few months ago for $2K. Even then I’ve used it maybe three times, and concluded it’s pretty much worthless. It constantly drives in blind spots of the cars around it, which I would never do if I was driving it myself. So it’s far less stressful for me to drive the car myself than to supervise what equates to a really mediocre student driver learning how to operate a vehicle for the first time, and not doing a very good job at it.

Some day we may get there, but I think it’s many years away. I feel bad for the people who spend $10K on FSD based on the hype, only to find out how limited it really is after they take delivery.
 

MorrisonHiker

S 100D 2021.32.10
Mar 8, 2015
10,127
9,621
Colorado
That has been my experience as well. We have FSD in our 2018 Model 3 and we almost never use it. My 2019 Model 3 came without even the basic autopilot, and I resisted buying it until it went on sale a few months ago for $2K. Even then I’ve used it maybe three times, and concluded it’s pretty much worthless. It constantly drives in blind spots of the cars around it, which I would never do if I was driving it myself. So it’s far less stressful for me to drive the car myself than to supervise what equates to a really mediocre student driver learning how to operate a vehicle for the first time, and not doing a very good job at it.

Some day we may get there, but I think it’s many years away. I feel bad for the people who spend $10K on FSD based on the hype, only to find out how limited it really is after they take delivery.
Do you only use it in heavy traffic? I typically only enable NoA on road trips. We just drove 2000 miles on a trip a couple weeks back and NoA was amazing. It's really come a long way over the years. There were a few places where NoA would be deactivated (such as tunnels) but it would automatically re-enable once we left the tunnel. We kept NoA or regular autosteer on nearly the entire trip. Sometimes it wanted to do some lane changes but I just ignored those when I didn't agree with the need to change lanes. There were a couple aborted lane changes and one deactivation when I intervened to manually pass a truck and AP was disabled. It made the trip nearly effortless.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,184
36,500
Oregon

SomeJoe7777

Marginally-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
2,191
5,685
Houston, TX
Do you only use it in heavy traffic? I typically only enable NoA on road trips. We just drove 2000 miles on a trip a couple weeks back and NoA was amazing. It's really come a long way over the years. There were a few places where NoA would be deactivated (such as tunnels) but it would automatically re-enable once we left the tunnel. We kept NoA or regular autosteer on nearly the entire trip. Sometimes it wanted to do some lane changes but I just ignored those when I didn't agree with the need to change lanes. There were a couple aborted lane changes and one deactivation when I intervened to manually pass a truck and AP was disabled. It made the trip nearly effortless.

I've tried it on nearly empty freeways, congested but moving traffic, and stop-and-go traffic. The results are always laughable.

On Sunday, I was on US 59 (Eastex freeway) in Houston, heading north. NoA had just finished navigating the ramp from IH-610 eastbound to US 59 northbound, and was now in an exit-only lane that would exit in about 3/4 of a mile. This was at 7:30 AM on a Sunday, so the freeway was nearly empty. There was one car within 100 meters of my car, it was one lane to the left of me and slightly behind, thus in a blind spot. NoA turned on the left signal to get over one lane and get out of the exit-only lane. When the other car didn't move, NoA made no effort whatsoever to speed up or slow down to give itself a clear path to make a lane change to the left. It sat there with it's left blinker on for over 45 seconds, and never moved. I had to take control, brake to get behind that car, and move over, crossing the solid line for the exit. An absolutely pathetic display of exactly how bad this system currently is.

That's one example. I can cite hundreds more. I currently have the selector for "Exit Passing Lane" set to Yes. Do you know how many times the vehicle has exited the passing lane for me? Zero. Out of dozens of opportunities. It doesn't work.

NoA has really come a long way over the years? I have seen regression, not advancement over the last year. Especially with regards to TACC speed limits. Places where TACC used to retain the correct speed limit now wildly vary -- 70MPH down to 50MPH back up to 65MPH. It'll make you nauseous.

Video(s) please.

Will gladly post some. My main dashcam (BlackView) has a power supply issue right now, once it's fixed I'll do it.

Obviously "FSD" is not for you.

I said in my post it was worth zero ... let me clarify, it's currently worth zero. I would gladly purchase FSD for a reasonable cost as soon as it's actually available. I don't know what to call the comical gimmick that's available for purchase on Tesla vehicles right now (an example of which is detailed above), but it's not "FSD".
 
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Redbrick

Member
Jun 27, 2020
216
112
Babylon 5
"Elon Musk has confirmed that Tesla plans to release its Full Self-Driving software package as a monthly subscription service as soon as “early 2021”.

pvE5cdT.png


Tesla is going to release Full Self-Driving monthly subscription in early 2021 - Electrek


I wonder if that means fsd will be general release...not beta.
 

OCR1

Active Member
Jan 28, 2018
3,760
4,118
Southern California
Do you only use it in heavy traffic? I typically only enable NoA on road trips.

Unfortunately living in Southern California means always being in heavy traffic. I did once use it for a road trip to Palm Springs where there wasn’t much traffic and it worked fine. But 99% of my driving is either city driving or heavily congested freeway traffic, so it’s just really not useful for me.
 

MorrisonHiker

S 100D 2021.32.10
Mar 8, 2015
10,127
9,621
Colorado
Unfortunately living in Southern California means always being in heavy traffic. I did once use it for a road trip to Palm Springs where there wasn’t much traffic and it worked fine. But 99% of my driving is either city driving or heavily congested freeway traffic, so it’s just really not useful for me.
Yeah, I admit I don't use it around down where there's lots of traffic...but fortunately it works great for us on road trips throughout the west where there isn't much traffic.
 

Redbrick

Member
Jun 27, 2020
216
112
Babylon 5
I've tried it on nearly empty freeways, congested but moving traffic, and stop-and-go traffic. The results are always laughable.

On Sunday, I was on US 59 (Eastex freeway) in Houston, heading north. NoA had just finished navigating the ramp from IH-610 eastbound to US 59 northbound, and was now in an exit-only lane that would exit in about 3/4 of a mile. This was at 7:30 AM on a Sunday, so the freeway was nearly empty. There was one car within 100 meters of my car, it was one lane to the left of me and slightly behind, thus in a blind spot. NoA turned on the left signal to get over one lane and get out of the exit-only lane. When the other car didn't move, NoA made no effort whatsoever to speed up or slow down to give itself a clear path to make a lane change to the left. It sat there with it's left blinker on for over 45 seconds, and never moved. I had to take control, brake to get behind that car, and move over, crossing the solid line for the exit. An absolutely pathetic display of exactly how bad this system currently is.

That's one example. I can cite hundreds more. I currently have the selector for "Exit Passing Lane" set to Yes. Do you know how many times the vehicle has exited the passing lane for me? Zero. Out of dozens of opportunities. It doesn't work.

NoA has really come a long way over the years? I have seen regression, not advancement over the last year. Especially with regards to TACC speed limits. Places where TACC used to retain the correct speed limit now wildly vary -- 70MPH down to 50MPH back up to 65MPH. It'll make you nauseous.



Will gladly post some. My main dashcam (BlackView) has a power supply issue right now, once it's fixed I'll do it.



I said in my post it was worth zero ... let me clarify, it's currently worth zero. I would gladly purchase FSD for a reasonable cost as soon as it's actually available. I don't know what to call the comical gimmick that's available for purchase on Tesla vehicles right now (an example of which is detailed above), but it's not "FSD".


Interesting....my experience with noa has been pretty good so far. sometimes it might miss a split but those circumstances were due to jerks not letting me change lanes. exiting of passing has been great. love the feature. the 'avoid toll' feature does not seem to work though. also sometimes you can tell the car is trying to phantom brake....but hesitates and just slows down. can't wait for the fsd to come my way. i'm on 48.12.1
 

Dan D.

Member
Dec 7, 2020
666
740
Vancouver, BC
Interesting....my experience with noa has been pretty good so far.

I've tried it on nearly empty freeways, congested but moving traffic, and stop-and-go traffic. The results are always laughable.
... Out of dozens of opportunities. It doesn't work.

Has anyone ever drawn any correlation between good and bad experiences?
Could it be down to car model, hardware version, geography?

Some comparisons. Hope it's ok to post these links.
Tesla AP, EAP, FSD, HW2, HW2.5 HW3, MCU1 and MCU2 feature differences
Tesla Info: Technical hardware differences
Tesla FSD and Feature Complete
 

EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
9,709
28,525
Seattle, WA
I said in my post it was worth zero ... let me clarify, it's currently worth zero. I would gladly purchase FSD for a reasonable cost as soon as it's actually available. I don't know what to call the comical gimmick that's available for purchase on Tesla vehicles right now (an example of which is detailed above), but it's not "FSD".
Its AP - not "FSD".

So, the question is what is the AP available in Tesla worth. How much do other OEMs charge for such features ? Not zero, let me assure you.

A Toyota van we bought last year has fraction of the AP features and cost nearly $1K in options (that was the vehicle available, so had to get it).
 

jboy210

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2016
5,384
3,338
Northern California
Unfortunately living in Southern California means always being in heavy traffic. I did once use it for a road trip to Palm Springs where there wasn’t much traffic and it worked fine. But 99% of my driving is either city driving or heavily congested freeway traffic, so it’s just really not useful for me.
When we had heavy traffic here in the Bay Area I found EAP to be most useful. Stop and go is a breeze. And it cuts pretty aggressively to an interchange ramp.
 

MorrisonHiker

S 100D 2021.32.10
Mar 8, 2015
10,127
9,621
Colorado
When we had heavy traffic here in the Bay Area I found EAP to be most useful. Stop and go is a breeze. And it cuts pretty aggressively to an interchange ramp.
It is useful in stop and go traffic and helps reduce stress. We ran into that on our road trip a couple weeks back in SLC and it worked great. The times we don't use it in traffic are when traffic is moving somewhat but some lanes are much slower than others. It only looks at the car ahead and wants to change into the passing lane. Often the passing lane ends up being the slow lane. If NoA keeps suggesting lane changes, I might diable it and stick with regular autosteer for a while.

Fortunately 99.8% of our road trip didn't have traffic so we were able to use it almost the entire 2000 miles.
 

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