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FSD Subscription coming "early 2021"

SomeJoe7777

Marginally-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
2,191
5,686
Houston, TX
Its AP - not "FSD".

So, the question is what is the AP available in Tesla worth. How much do other OEMs charge for such features ? Not zero, let me assure you.

A Toyota van we bought last year has fraction of the AP features and cost nearly $1K in options (that was the vehicle available, so had to get it).

No, I am speaking specifically of the "FSD" feature set, which includes surface street driving, stop sign and traffic light recognition, and upcoming turns/navigation.

I do not have that feature set in my vehicles. I have the EAP feature set (no longer available for purchase), which includes autosteer, auto lane change, navigate on autopilot (on freeways/highways only), summon and smart summon, and auto-parallel and auto-perpendicular parking.

Other than the autosteer and auto lane change, the remainder of the EAP feature set is highly disappointing, as I've detailed. Since it is not possible for the more complicated maneuvers in the FSD feature set to be any better than the ones in the EAP feature set (which is a subset of FSD), then it's a logical conclusion that the FSD feature set is highly disappointing as well (when I apply the same standards of evaluation that I have to the EAP feature set).

Until Tesla can prove to me that the EAP feature set has a high value (which they have not done), then I cannot under any logical progression conclude that the FSD feature set has any value.
 

FloridaJohn

Member
Apr 1, 2016
366
444
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Since it is not possible for the more complicated maneuvers in the FSD feature set to be any better than the ones in the EAP feature set (which is a subset of FSD), then it's a logical conclusion that the FSD feature set is highly disappointing as well (when I apply the same standards of evaluation that I have to the EAP feature set).
Why can't the FSD features be better than the EAP features?

The FSD software is different than the EAP software.
 

JulienW

Active Member
Jul 7, 2018
2,586
2,823
Atlanta
Why can't the FSD features be better than the EAP features?

The FSD software is different than the EAP software.
It will be soon since EAP is not likely to receive any more features. Offering EAP again was probably good for 2 reasons for Tesla. Bring in cash for the quarter and get people ½ in the door to FSD so they will want to buy as soon as it is released.

Also as of now the software is probably almost the same. We will move over to the new operating code when FSD 4D is released. Possible we could switch over to the new code on V11 but even the FSD Beta testers are switching back and forth.
 

SomeJoe7777

Marginally-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
2,191
5,686
Houston, TX
Why can't the FSD features be better than the EAP features?

The FSD software is different than the EAP software.

So there are two possible scenarios here:

1. EAP is a subset of the features in FSD because they're running the same software (or perhaps slightly different branches of the same software), but the core decision-making code is the same. In this case, what I said in my previous post stands -- since the FSD maneuvers are more difficult to perform than the EAP maneuvers, it is not possible to execute more difficult maneuvers better than less difficult ones. Thus, FSD cannot perform better than EAP under any circumstance.

If this scenario is the case, then for me, given how bad EAP performs, I cannot justify spending any money on the FSD feature set.

2. EAP and FSD run completely different code bases and FSD's code base delivers superior performance. In this case, I'm in the following situation:

I purchased a Model S 85D with AP1 hardware in 2015, before any autosteer features were released or activated in the car. I paid $3,000 for the promised feature set, which was "hands-free on-ramp to off-ramp driving". This promised feature is today equivalent of what Navigate on Autopilot in the EAP feature set is supposed to accomplish. Nothing anywhere near this feature was ever provided for AP1 cars. AP1 cars received an autosteer and auto lane change feature set before development was abandoned, and the autosteer and auto lane change features are nowhere near as good as what is offered with HW2.0 or HW2.5.

This was the first pre-paid feature set that I was promised that was not delivered.

I have purchased two Model 3 vehicles, both purchased in 2018. I paid $4,000 each for the EAP feature set, which promised the same thing - Navigate on Autopilot on freeways/highways, with the car automatically performing maneuvers as required to follow a navigation route. It's almost 2021, and this feature has yet to be delivered in anywhere close to a usable fashion.

And now you're telling me that once again, HW3 and the FSD software are what is being developed, and HW2.5 and EAP have again been abandoned before the promised, pre-paid feature set has been delivered. For the second time.

So as of right now, I'm out $11,000 for features that were never delivered, and you're suggesting that if I pay up another $10,000 that I might get the features when they're delivered at some future, unknown date?

Well, we have for sure entered the fantasy kingdom, because I can guarantee you that not a single dime of my money will be spent on any future promise from Tesla ever again. Until one of their cars takes me from Houston to Dallas and back without me touching a single control, there will be no sale.

This spring, after my wife and I can get Covid vaccinations, we are going on several driving vacations, and I'm going to sell one of the Model 3's and buy a new Model X specifically for doing those trips. You know what AP feature set I'm buying? The included basic AP. Because that's all that actually works.
 
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banned-66611

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Remember though that Tesla will happily charge you for "full self driving" that is really just level 2 driver aids and not actually capable of full self driving, so don't get too excited.
 

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