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FSD subscription was plan all along in my opinion

Discussion in 'Autopilot & Autonomous/FSD' started by robl45, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. robl45

    robl45 Member

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    I can't see any other thought on this with Elon raising the price like a lunatic. Yes, obviously that is good for someone that purchases it cheaply, BUT the FSD package does not move from car to car, so you are literally alienating your own customers, but making them either not want to buy another newer car or not buy the package on a new car as the price spirals out of control.

    I personally am not in love with the subscription idea as I'm not keen on adding extra monthly expenses. My best guess is that at some point, they will be forced to break down the price between commercial and purely personal use as 10000 or more is out of hand for most people, but worse, if you paid 5000 for the package, are you going to pay 10000 the next time for the same thing?
     
  2. UncertainTimes

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    An subscription plan for everything was the plan all along. Corporations hate it when we can own anything outright.
     
    • Like x 4
  3. Mattopotamus

    Mattopotamus Member

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    This is true. Everyone wants you on a subscription these days. A subscription is really the only thing that makes sense for FSD. He is pretty much at the point where he has priced people out of buying it. There is no way in hell I am paying 25% the price of the car for software that is tethered to the car, especially when he has told us a subscription is looming. I may sell my car in 1 year or maybe 10 years.
     
  4. robl45

    robl45 Member

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    The other problem is there is no reality in the pricing. for a 100K car, maybe 10K makes sense, for a 50K car, it maybe doesn't make sense, but you have to take account of the value of the car which I think Elon sorely missed. When he was selling 70 plus thousand dollar cars, people would probably drop an extra 5K without thinking. Its a bit different when you drop into the model 3 and Y territory.
     
  5. charlieaf92

    charlieaf92 Member

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    Yeah I'm pretty sure Elon said in an interview that the feature will inevitably become only available via subscription. Think about it from a car manufacturer's perspective. It isn't like cruise control where you build it, sell it, and you're done. This type of thing is going to require ongoing updates/refinements/etc. If you sell it to someone outright are you then obligated to continue to support it for the lifetime of that vehicle? What happens if a few years from now regulators decide that in order for a vehicle to be autonomous there needs to be specific piece of hardware (special radio transmitter lets say) in the car. Should Tesla pay for the install of it in everyone's car? It's a MASSIVE contingent liability and one that no company should reasonably be expected to shoulder.

    Oh and if memory serves me right, someone tweeted Elon about transferring FSD to a new vehicle purchase and Elon responded saying they would look into it. So, that may be something that becomes possible down the road - but I don't see much financial incentive for them to pursue it.

    Tesla got a little excited/greedy by doing exactly that when they sold the 'promise' of FSD. They've already had to upgrade all of the older computers at their cost when they determined the original hardware couldn't deliver on the promise. I've also seen whispers about new headlights with cameras, potentially required to see around corners when cross intersections. That may or may not be true - but the point is that until they have a completed product with regulatory approval anything can happen and right now they're technically on the hook to update customer's cars as needed.

    10k is a lot, but arguably adds residual value to the vehicle. When the option to purchase it goes away, that should help bring the resale value of the option closer to what was paid (right now I estimate FSD adds 4-5k to the value of a used car). The RoboTaxi network is another interesting thing that could make the 10k investment a drop in the bucket - if it ever happens.

    Finally, tons of people lease vehicles (especially luxury cars) and paying $10k for an option on a leased car (figure 5k deprecation of it per my comment above) over 36 months comes out to $140/month. A subscription may be a much better deal for people leasing.

    The talk about the subscription has me slightly optimistic that a new more "true" version of FSD is on the horizon, as I can't imagine Tesla expect someone to pay a monthly subscription for it in its current state.

    Finally - they're using it as a way to generate massive amounts of cash. If what I read about it is correct, they're not able to dip into the pool of cash completely but rather chip away at is as they release features closer and closer to what is promised. But, I'm pretty sure they found a workaround with the certified pre-owned program. Every CPO Tesla I've seen has FSD. They're taking cars as trade-ins, etc, and adding FSD and then turning around and re-selling them for the same, or in some cases, more than they sold them for new. I suspect in those instances the cash isn't being set aside but is immediately available.

    Anyway that summarizes my thoughts on the entire scenario :)

    cheers
    Charlie
     
  6. robl45

    robl45 Member

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    I don't think they can move it to another vehicle because then you'd have major backlash from people like myself that would have bought at the cheaper price if it was able to be moved. I agree on the updates and such. I don't know how much value it adds as cars have a finite life so how much value does that self driving feature have if everything else is out of date? The robotaxi is commercial, I think they will need to separate personal and commercial at some point, do you really want someone driving around in your personal vehicle? Imagine the wear and tear. I don't think that is happening in my lifetime though and I'm closing in on 47. Just don't see it anywhere close at this point no matter what beta videos they want to show. There is a big difference between 98% and robotaxi unfortunately and I'd argue we aren't even at 98%, maybe 90% of the way and probably only in good weather.
     
  7. Mattopotamus

    Mattopotamus Member

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    I think people who bought are essentially locked into that model. Just like everyone else, they will have the option of a subscription going forward.
     
  8. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums

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    (moderator note: thread moved to autopilot / FSD forum which is the appropriate place for a discussion on FSD / autopilot)
     
  9. boonedocks

    boonedocks Active Member

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    Some of us, admittedly a little foolish, upgrade cars way too often. We have just placed an order for a Model S (hoping for some sort of refresh and will forfeit the $100 deposit if not) but did NOT order FSD. This will be our 4th Model S, our first had AP1 and the 2nd and 3rd we pre-paid for FSD. Not falling for Elon's "3 months maybe 6 months definitely" one more time. I may opt for a monthly subscription, at any price, once FSD is actually worth something but won't pay $10K for "hopes of FSD" again.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. robl45

    robl45 Member

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    if I had a car that I paid the money, I would have kept at least one of them. At some point I truly believe they will let some people one time swap in certain instances because it will be cheaper than replacing the hardware.
     
  11. run-the-joules

    run-the-joules Active Member

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    The way they're handling it right now ensures I won't buy another car from them until they find a way to make things right.

    I've been misled and outright lied to. I'm not falling for it again so either let me transfer FSD to a new car as a one time gesture, or see no more revenue of note from me. As someone who was going to buy a model y this quarter and a new car every 3 years in general, it's an obvious win to do the right thing.

    IMO a tesla without only basic lane keeping and TACC isn't worth owning so if that's all I can get I might as well buy a car from someone who can build one with luxury features.
     
  12. robl45

    robl45 Member

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    Agree with a lot of what you said, but I'm curious, what luxury features are you really missing? I've honestly been looking at other options, but I don't know of another maker that gets anywhere close for the price plus you have to factor in without the superchargers, its difficult to travel long distance.
     
  13. run-the-joules

    run-the-joules Active Member

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    air conditioned seats. Adequate adjustment on the seats (the squab/base on the tesla seats isn't long enough to support me properly).

    not worried about long distance travel, would keep the 3 for that (I don't do much of it anymore anyway). Selling it would make participating in the inevitable class action suits down the road more difficult.
     
  14. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 100D 2021.4.11

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    We just ordered another S as well and will probably go the FSD route. We've gone through several Teslas over the years and could've bought another Tesla with what we've spent on Autopilot and FSD.

    While I hate subscriptions, we might take that route going forward. It will make the initial purchase price cheaper and will end up costing us less if we continue to upgrade vehicles.

    If the FSD license was transferable then we'd probably buy it or see if we could get one of our existing licenses transferred.
     
    • Love x 1
  15. robl45

    robl45 Member

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    Eh, I was a fan of air conditioned seats but they hardly work on most cars. Plus you can just click the app and have the car at the temperature you want so air conditioned seats aren't really need IMHO.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  16. run-the-joules

    run-the-joules Active Member

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    worked great on my last car (Cadillac) where they used ducting to push cold air through the holes.

    Preconditioning is not a substitute. That's for not sitting down on hot seats. I want constant application of cool air. Similar to heated wheel vs preheating the car, it's not a substitute to just make the wheel warm when you first get in.

    if preconditioning was a substitute for constant control, we wouldn't need heated seats.
     
  17. robl45

    robl45 Member

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    I suppose, I have had multiple cars with the feature and none of them hardly work too well. I understand what you are saying for sure, just for me, I can heat or cool my car to what I need remotely and easily so those aren't that important.
     
  18. run-the-joules

    run-the-joules Active Member

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    yeah that's fair. I think Spotify and FM radio is lame but if people want it, that's fine. I don't have to use it.
     
  19. Needsdecaf

    Needsdecaf Member

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    You can buy a Model 3 for just under $40k including fees. $10k is a full 25% of the base price! For something that has more than half of it's value still in Beta with a handful of testers!

    INSANE.
     
  20. robl45

    robl45 Member

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    That aggravates me too. I would like apple carplay, android wahtever, but at least amazon music that comes with prime that most people have anyway.
     
    • Like x 1

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