rxlawdude
Active Member
Legit question: why are you here?
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this is one of the most discussed things on TMC, possibly only topped by "why does my car not get its rated range" or "I drove 12 miles and the car removed 20 from range, WTF?!?!?".
Value (like beauty) is in the eye of the beholder... but if OP wants to read other peoples opinions about it, other than the threads wattsup linked to, there are likely dozens more that would show up in a search of TMC.
Value (like beauty) is in the eye of the beholder... but if OP wants to read other peoples opinions about it, other than the threads wattsup linked to, there are likely dozens more that would show up in a search of TMC.
The other brands won't have a HW3 equivalent for years, though, so a huge piece of their struggle. Also won't have the data. Tesla is likely to have a significant structural competitive advantage for years to come.
And I think you're right that this will more likely come down in price as it starts to become more commoditized--folded into newer models seamlessly.
Another thing is that I would have a hard time seeing this new baby put into the fleet while I'm at work, and get some disgusting mess or vandalism problem somewhere along the way. FSD won't pay for itself, for me.
I'm leaning toward earmarking an investment of $7500 TSLA stock, then buying when it's too good to pass up. That's how I've paid for the entire car in the first place (and three weeks ago it would have been a simpler choice).
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Seems like everybody has reasons to justify or not justify FSD. That is what makes it so great to have as an option. Everybody gets to choose.
Some other points is that it does not really net cost $7,000 as you will get some of that back when you sell your car.
Pricing might go up in the future to make this current cost a good choice. (Could also go down, making a bad choice)
You can roll the cost into your loan if you order before delivery. Later on you must pay only all cash (plus sales tax)
If leasing, you will never pay the full $7,000, only the depreciated amount.
The more you use Autopilot, the more good (and bad) things you learn about it. Knowledgible owners know when it is a relaxing alternative to let it have it's way. In heavy traffic, or in the center lanes of an open highway it is priceless. In the far right lane with lots of on/off ramps or construction zones...not so much.
No matter. Everyone gets to make their choice and justify it in any way they choose.
Some other points is that it does not really net cost $7,000 as you will get some of that back when you sell your car.
Pricing might go up in the future to make this current cost a good choice. (Could also go down, making a bad choice)
You can roll the cost into your loan if you order before delivery. Later on you must pay only all cash (plus sales tax)
If leasing, you will never pay the full $7,000, only the depreciated amount.
The more you use Autopilot, the more good (and bad) things you learn about it. Knowledgible owners know when it is a relaxing alternative to let it have it's way. In heavy traffic, or in the center lanes of an open highway it is priceless. In the far right lane with lots of on/off ramps or construction zones...not so much.
No matter. Everyone gets to make their choice and justify it in any way they choose.
Why is it that when you buy FSD with the app you are charged sales tax. But when you buy acceleration boost (3 now and assume Y sometime) you are not. Both are purchased by the app. Both are a software on switch. What’s the difference.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
rxlawdude
Active Member
But, you have permanently lower annual registration (vehicle tax) renewals by buying outside initial purchase, and you can get miles or whatever your credit card company offers as a rebate.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
rxlawdude
Active Member
I researched this and even talked with the tax agency here in California. Clearly, software only delivered electronically is NOT sales-taxable. But the reason Tesla can charge tax for Californians is that the hardware is present and sold with each new car, such that adding FSD "merely turns on a feature built into the vehicle." Distinction without a difference, IMO, and would be an interesting case to litigate.
I look at it from this perspective: I'd pay sales tax on that incremental amount if purchased with the car, so paying tax on the after-purchase addition of FSD isn't really a penalty. Plus the afforementioned advantages re credit card rewards and lower annual registration militates to after-purchase for those who don't have to roll it into the car purchase.
But the Performance Boost is same thing. The hardware is already in the car when you buy it. You are just turning it on like FSD.
Personally I don’t think either should be taxed. Just like phone apps aren’t and digital movie purchases aren’t.
But in either case there is no clear reason that FSD purchased from the app is. And Performance Boost purchased from the app isn’t. Both have hardware installed in the car when purchased regardless if used or not. But is just a software switch.
Personally I don’t think either should be taxed. Just like phone apps aren’t and digital movie purchases aren’t.
But in either case there is no clear reason that FSD purchased from the app is. And Performance Boost purchased from the app isn’t. Both have hardware installed in the car when purchased regardless if used or not. But is just a software switch.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Tesla gets no benefit from charging sales taxes. It is just a pass through to the state. It is govt. regulations that determine what gets taxed.
Didn’t say Tesla is. And I’m sure it is the govt. trying to understand the different in taxataion between two simply similar things.
Oh well prob no more different to when the grocery taxes changes and one box of crackers would be charged different from an almost seemingly similar one. Or how you walk into a fast food and get charged different if it’s to go or eat in; regardless that you eat there in both cases.
Oh well prob no more different to when the grocery taxes changes and one box of crackers would be charged different from an almost seemingly similar one. Or how you walk into a fast food and get charged different if it’s to go or eat in; regardless that you eat there in both cases.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Good points. Noticed that Subway charges sales tax if they heat your sandwich, not if it is served cold.
OK, Let me add one more uncertainty to the calculus here...
When HW3 came out, it was upgraded for free for those with FSD, correct?
A new computer is under development, purported to be 3X performance. If one has FSD when it's released, maybe it will be upgraded without added charge. Buying later, maybe not?
When HW3 came out, it was upgraded for free for those with FSD, correct?
A new computer is under development, purported to be 3X performance. If one has FSD when it's released, maybe it will be upgraded without added charge. Buying later, maybe not?
rxlawdude
Active Member
I think it is unrealistic to expect Tesla to deliver SAE Level 4 or 5 autonomous driving with current technologies.
Sunshine State
Automotive Enthusiast
I have both FSD HW3 and also base AP HW3 in the last car we bought. I went for regular AP this time because in my opinion regular AP does 99 percent of what I use the FSD for. The other 1 percent is lane changing which is easy and far better to do by yourself. If a driver can’t change lanes better, quicker, and smoother they should question if they should be driving in the first place. The additional functioning features of FSD above AP are gimmicks at best and annoying at worst. For about $1000 I’d likely go with FSD so I could say I have every possible option. Base AP is far to cheap at free (or included), Tesla should go back to the $5k/$3k price model. As long as Tesla has people convinced that FSD will function as good as a human driver any time soon I guess they can sell it priced as it is now. Right now the advantage I’ve base is really questionable.
Reeler
Decade of Pure EV Driving
Tesla's FSD effort is dead last: Tesla trails Waymo, Cruise and others in self-driving strategy, study claims - Roadshow
Birdman325
Member
With the "regular / baae" AP that comes with new cars, I appreciate that the car won't change lanes even when you manually select the turn signal indicator, but does it drop out of AP, every time you change lanes, and then you have to re-engage when you pass and get back in the middle lane?
In my car, with legacy EAP, it takes a fair bit of resistance to disengage by pulling on the wheel. I read somewhere that with AP, it is "easier / requires less effort" to move the wheel to change lanes while on AP.
Correct?
In my car, with legacy EAP, it takes a fair bit of resistance to disengage by pulling on the wheel. I read somewhere that with AP, it is "easier / requires less effort" to move the wheel to change lanes while on AP.
Correct?
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