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FSD Transfer - NO - but Tesla says it's really OK

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Just did a quick search on this forum and saw this one.
That's a long thread, is there actually a specific post in there detailing a case where that happened?

Again, the stories I came across all came back to Tesla removing FSD while they owned the car, and it simply propagated late from their central systems to the car itself. That is bad, Tesla should force the car's software config to fully update before they sell it, but in these cases Tesla never, ever told the next buyer/owner that the car had FSD. There were no false claims, just bad assumptions on the part of dealers or buyers.
 
That's a long thread, is there actually a specific post in there detailing a case where that happened?

Again, the stories I came across all came back to Tesla removing FSD while they owned the car, and it simply propagated late from their central systems to the car itself. That is bad, Tesla should force the car's software config to fully update before they sell it, but in these cases Tesla never, ever told the next buyer/owner that the car had FSD. There were no false claims, just bad assumptions on the part of dealers or buyers.

I followed that thread for a while, as I was considering buying a model x with FSD. There were a number of people who claimed what I'm pointing out in it. But it's been a long time since I read the thread.
 
I followed that thread for a while, as I was considering buying a model x with FSD. There were a number of people who claimed what I'm pointing out in it. But it's been a long time since I read the thread.
If you want to buy a used Tesla with FSD from a 3rd party (not Tesla themselves), I suggest two things:

1) Call Tesla sales and ask if they can lookup by VIN whether the car has fully purchased FSD. I haven't tried this but I think they should be able and willing to.
2) Get the fact that it has fully purchased FSD in writing from the seller.

Those two things should give you reasonable confidence the car actually has FSD purchased (from #1), and recourse in case it does not (from #2).

#2 is only worthwhile if you think you could actually go after the seller for fraud/compensation. Don't buy an expensive car from someone (person or business) that seems like they might disappear or who might not have accessible finances to recover damages from. That should go without saying and applies whether or not FSD is involved!
 
I have a Model 3 with FSD that I am looking to sell. I got written email from a Sales Advisor that FSD transfers, but on a call with another Sales Advisor it does not transfer if run through a dealership or auction. I purchased my FSD after I bought the car and on the sales receipt it does not have a VIN or any other identifiable info that ties the FSD to the car. It does have my name and address though.
 
So what of all the people in these forums who have said they bought a car from a used car dealer, not Tesla, that had FSD when they bought it, and had it taken away by Tesla? Are we to assume that these numerous people are all lying?

I am not saying that if a private party sells their car to another private party Tesla removes it, I do not believe they can legally do so. But it does appear that they can legally do so if someone trades in or sells a car to another dealer. At least that's what we must believe if the various people on these forums are telling the truth.
It is good to hear they do this, but it seems to me it would mean that nobody should every trade in a Tesla with FSD to Tesla. I mean if it costs $12,000 and does not "depreciate" since it's just software and a promise, the value in the used market should not be too far below that. As long as you can add $12K to your car selling it to a 3rd party or 3rd party dealer, why would you possibly trade it in to Tesla and get none of that? Trade in is convenient but hardly that convenient.

That, in turn, does not seem to be in Tesla's interests since they run the dealerships. Why would they want to cut out their trade-ins like this? OK, I am sure some people still trade-in but it's not very rational. But then, frankly, buying FSD has never been a rational decision. I paid only $2,000 for it during the special sale, and only did it for other reasons, I am not sure it's worth it otherwise.

What happens with people who lease? Do any of them buy FSD, just to lose it in 3 years? Leaving aside that it would be better to pay for it monthly in that case in any situation, if you really value nav-on-autopilot and other things at that price, it just seems like too much of a hit to take, even when it was $6K.
 
So what of all the people in these forums who have said they bought a car from a used car dealer, not Tesla, that had FSD when they bought it, and had it taken away by Tesla? Are we to assume that these numerous people are all lying?
Tesla removes FSD when someone trades it in.

It may take a few days for the FSD to be actually removed from the car.

Sometimes the turnover is so fast, by then the car might have been sold again.

As alway check the paperwork before buying used cars. See what options are mentioned.

This point has been debated to death.

ps : The problem comes when someone buys a used Tesla from a used car dealer ”cheap” after looking at the software details showing FSD and thinking he is getting a great deal. Used car salesmen might even say it has FSD. But if they bought it in auction from Tesla, if doesn’t. Guess what, the deal was too good to be true.
 
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Actually its not generous, so much as a way of retaining customers .. as the competition grows I suspect they will re-visit this at some level, such as offering to transfer FSD to a new car for some reduced fee (thus getting repeat revenue but also retaining customers).
It’s like anything else though. Imagine you upgraded your phone and had to rebuy all the apps? Built a new computer and had to rebuy windows and Microsoft office? I guess generous is a wrong word. It would be genius to make FSD user/account locked and not vehicle locked.
 
It’s like anything else though. Imagine you upgraded your phone and had to rebuy all the apps? Built a new computer and had to rebuy windows and Microsoft office? I guess generous is a wrong word. It would be genius to make FSD user/account locked and not vehicle locked.
But when you buy a new PC you do pay (indirectly) Microsoft for a new Windows license, even if you already owned that from a prior PC purchase. Sure, if you build your own PC that doesnt happen, but how many people do that these days?

We can debate the Tesla FSD business model endlessly, but its certainly not illegal, nor it is unique. In fact, its applying to software the EXACT business model that car makers have used forever. My daughter recently took her Maxda in to have CarPlay added (basically a USB upgrade) and paid $350 for it. Should she expect to transfer this to a new Mazda if/when she buys one, or sell it with the car? Of curse, it goes with the car, as does any other upgrade. An FSD purchase is no different. If only seems different because the software "seems" insubstantial and somehow qualitatively different from buying something you can drop on your foot. But its still the same .. you are adding a feature to the car, and that feature moves with your car when you sell it (presumably also adding to the resale value of the car).

Now, some people argue that they have purchased FSD but have yet to see it, and some ended up selling the car before they see any value from the FSD purchase at all, and this is different, and they do have a case for some kind of compensation/transfer imho.
 
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I don’t know why it’s a “permanent” addon. Just like it’s enabled, it could be disabled.

In my personal opinion it should be account locked and not car locked. Just like when I sell my iPhone and buy a new one, the new owner of my old phone doesn’t get all of the apps I paid for and I get to keep enjoying them on my new phone.

When I buy a house and furnish it, it also adds to its overall value. If I’m going to sell it, I’m going to take my furniture with me to my next place, and not demand the buyer to pay me more for furniture they might not want, nor be forced to leave behind my furniture.
 
I don’t know why it’s a “permanent” addon. Just like it’s enabled, it could be disabled.

In my personal opinion it should be account locked and not car locked. Just like when I sell my iPhone and buy a new one, the new owner of my old phone doesn’t get all of the apps I paid for and I get to keep enjoying them on my new phone.

When I buy a house and furnish it, it also adds to its overall value. If I’m going to sell it, I’m going to take my furniture with me to my next place, and not demand the buyer to pay me more for furniture they might not want, nor be forced to leave behind my furniture.
Agreed, but what if you put in new appliances? Or have a new roof put on the house?
 
If I recall correctly...when I purchased FSD the download was almost instantaneous...leading me to believe that the FSD is permanently installed but locked...so (this is a long stretch)...can it be argued that Tesla has given you a new FSD when you purchase a new car..you just can’t use it...yet
 
If I recall correctly...when I purchased FSD the download was almost instantaneous...leading me to believe that the FSD is permanently installed but locked...so (this is a long stretch)...can it be argued that Tesla has given you a new FSD when you purchase a new car..you just can’t use it...yet
I believe every car and the proper hardware already, it’s just the software you pay for to unlock it.
 
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I don’t know why it’s a “permanent” addon. Just like it’s enabled, it could be disabled.

In my personal opinion it should be account locked and not car locked. Just like when I sell my iPhone and buy a new one, the new owner of my old phone doesn’t get all of the apps I paid for and I get to keep enjoying them on my new phone.
That's why Tesla have an FSD subscription :)

The fact is, some people want account-locked, others car-locked. Basically, if you are buying a new replacement Tesla, you want account-locked so you can transfer your investment, but if you are buying a new non-Tesla replacement, you want car-locked so you can recoup some of your investment in the car resale. There is no right or wrong here. The only real issue is those people who have paid $$$ for full FSD and have yet to receive the feature (and may not see it at all before they sell the car). This probably does warrant some form of value transfer to the new car (though Tesla would no doubt argue that this happens when they sell the old car WITH the full FSD feature).
 
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That's why Tesla have an FSD subscription :)

The fact is, some people want account-locked, others car-locked. Basically, if you are buying a new replacement Tesla, you want account-locked so you can transfer your investment, but if you are buying a new non-Tesla replacement, you want car-locked so you can recoup some of your investment in the car resale. There is no right or wrong here. The only real issue is those people who have paid $$$ for full FSD and have yet to receive the feature (and may not see it at all before they sell the car). This probably does warrant some form of value transfer to the new car (though Tesla would no doubt argue that this happens when they sell the old car WITH the full FSD feature).
People would like both, however car-locked is far preferable if you get one, both because you definitely want that if you are switching to another car, but you also want it if you no longer feel FSD was a good purchase.

If you want to sell your Tesla and get a new Tesla with FSD, you should be able to sell the old car with FSD, and get a premium for close to $12K when you sell it, which you can use on the new one you buy. Of course, as always sales tax is a killer on private used car sales.

Now, in theory FSD should sell for exactly $12K in the used market, because it isn't "used" and does not depreciate while you have it. In reality software products that are "used" will sell for less than new, though it's not entirely clear why they do, unless you are going to get less support etc. with the used software but that's not the case here, one would think.

So, to make up that difference of what you can sell it for and buy it for "new" you would like transfer. And to avoid the sales tax. It's in Tesla's interest to let you avoid the sales tax with a transfer, that makes you more likely to get it again.

Tesla FSD has generally been an unwise purchase. Opinion on the value of the early features is varied but generally quite low. I myself never use them except parking sometimes. FSD "beta" is not included with FSD and only given to some drivers, and it's interesting to test it out, but it's not useful as a product to make your driving experience nicer.

As such, if you have $12K, buy $12K of TSLA stock with it. If Tesla ever makes FSD work, your TSLA stock will go up far more in value than any price increase that might come to FSD. If they fail to make it work, your stock may go down, and so you would get a little less out of it than the refund you are owed -- however large that is as they will claim that some of what you paid was for navigate on autopilot etc. The stock is a more likely win, though when it's been up in the stratosphere that's less clear.
 
I would link FSD to the buyer. Then the options increase....sell the car with FSD...sell FSD separately....sell the car and keep FSD in case one day you buy another Tesla (including second hand from a non Tesla source).....give it as a gift (for example to an elderly or infirm driver who could benefit from it)...loan it to someone...etc
 
I would link FSD to the buyer. Then the options increase....sell the car with FSD...sell FSD separately....sell the car and keep FSD in case one day you buy another Tesla (including second hand from a non Tesla source).....give it as a gift (for example to an elderly or infirm driver who could benefit from it)...loan it to someone...etc
My guess is that as other car makers catch up Tesla will see the FSD investment as leverage to keep customers loyal .. which means making FSD account-based not car-based, thus acting as an incentive to keep within the Tesla brand to maximize your investment in FSD. Classic customer lock-in to an ecosystem.
 
I would link FSD to the buyer. Then the options increase....sell the car with FSD...sell FSD separately....sell the car and keep FSD in case one day you buy another Tesla (including second hand from a non Tesla source).....give it as a gift (for example to an elderly or infirm driver who could benefit from it)...loan it to someone...etc
I'm confused, how do you "sell the car with FSD" if it is tied to you rather than the car? The most customer-centric approach would be to tie it to both car or buyer, or to just make it independent in that you have an FSD licence which you can transfer, sell with a car, or even sell on the open market.

There is a wrinkle with selling it other than with the car though, which is hardware upgrades. There is the HW3 upgrade of course. Then there are the upgrades to come -- HW4, better cameras, better radar and who knows, in an alternate universe, maybe a LIDAR. Expensive hardware upgrades can't come more than once with a subscription.

From Tesla's standpoint, they can make a bit more money if they limit transfers in several ways. But it can also be in Tesla's interests to be customer-centric and make happy customers. If I know I can resell FSD for not much less than I paid for it, I am much more willing to buy it.
 
From Tesla's standpoint, they can make a bit more money if they limit transfers in several ways. But it can also be in Tesla's interests to be customer-centric and make happy customers. If I know I can resell FSD for not much less than I paid for it, I am much more willing to buy it.
They will not let anyone transfer FSD - unless they have a demand problem. As long as they are production constrained, they have little incentive ....

Lucid is now selling their "semi-autonomous" feature for $9k. No description of the features or timeline given.

BTW, OEM Windows is tied to the computer and can't be transferred. Retail Windows is probably 4x the cost of OEM ...
 
Lucid is now selling their "semi-autonomous" feature for $9k. No description of the features or timeline given.
Got to love the GoFundMe model for developing self-driving features. Actual Tesla and Lucid self-driving might be a joke but the business model is brilliant!

BTW, OEM Windows is tied to the computer and can't be transferred. Retail Windows is probably 4x the cost of OEM ...
This is an interesting and good point. This makes sense, as there is certainly more value in an independently transferable license.

Btw out of curiosity, does modern Windows attempt to enforce that OEM licenses are only used on the computer they were originally issued for? I recall using OEM-issued license keys on alternate computers without issue. If I wasn't supposed to do that back then I certainly didn't realize it. This would've been Windows XP and 2000, I haven't used Windows on my own computers since the XP heyday.
 
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