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FSD V GM CRUISE

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Bought my first Tesla in 2012. Currently own three. Have been using FSD for a number of weeks. Numerous problems and need to intervene.

Watched the GM Cruise driverless taxis in San Francisco on various YouTube videos. No issues noted and it is what I expected Tesla to have by now.
 
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You can't buy a GM Cruise robotaxi. If you could, you probably couldn't afford it.
It's not in production yet, but yeah it definitely won't be for sale. GM claims the Cruise Origin, the production version that's supposedly coming in 2023, will cost less than a midsize SUV to manufacture.
Elon says they're going to stop selling cars to consumers once FSD is out of beta so you won't be able to buy a Tesla robotaxi either.
 
Well, it is geo-fenced and night time restricted at the moment to an area of SF that is not nearly as congested as downtown. So not quite comparable to FSD yet.

Not comparable? Its in ~70% of SF. Take your tesla to SF and its exactly the same scenario/situation.
Typical illogical talking points from Tesla fans
 
It's an Apples to Oranges comparison

One is is pre-release of an L2 driver assist feature.
One is L4 which is full on self-driving within a geofenced area.

You can't really buy either of them. Sure you can pretend to buy FSD, but its not complete yet. Heck you can't even use with without passing the "safety score".

I have FSD beta and it's just not usable enough to use it at this time for anything other than testing it. Use if it you enjoy doing unpaid work or if you have a really big imagination and you can pretend its self-driving. :)

FYI - You don't need to watch GM cruise videos as you can sign up and ride in one yourself.
 
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It's not in production yet, but yeah it definitely won't be for sale. GM claims the Cruise Origin, the production version that's supposedly coming in 2023, will cost less than a midsize SUV to manufacture.
Elon says they're going to stop selling cars to consumers once FSD is out of beta so you won't be able to buy a Tesla robotaxi either.
Surely you do not believe everything that Elon says do you?
 
Surely you do not believe everything that Elon says do you?
Elon is actually logically consistent on this. There is no way Tesla will continue to sell cars to consumers when they have robotaxis with no geofence next year. Obviously once they meet the demand for the Tesla Robotaxi (100 million units?) then they will sell cars to consumers again. Though you also have to consider the demand for the autonomous Tesla Semi which would also have much higher margins than consumer vehicles.
 
What is interesting is
Elon is actually logically consistent on this. There is no way Tesla will continue to sell cars to consumers when they have robotaxis with no geofence next year. Obviously once they meet the demand for the Tesla Robotaxi (100 million units?) then they will sell cars to consumers again. Though you also have to consider the demand for the autonomous Tesla Semi which would also have much higher margins than consumer vehicles.
That is interesting, but Tesla seems to be doing the opposite. Why accelerate the build out of the supercharger network with chargers that require hands to plug into the car, rather than some automated plug-in design.

Why announce and plan to build the Cybertruck a year or so from now.

Why announce and plan to build the Roadster 2 at some point.

Unless of course, FSD won't be out of beta for decades... ;)
 
What is interesting is

That is interesting, but Tesla seems to be doing the opposite. Why accelerate the build out of the supercharger network with chargers that require hands to plug into the car, rather than some automated plug-in design.

Why announce and plan to build the Cybertruck a year or so from now.

Why announce and plan to build the Roadster 2 at some point.
Haha. These are tough ones.
I think the supercharger network is now profitable (have you seen the prices!) and often congested so it still makes sense to expand it for the existing fleet. Robotaxis are going to return to depots for cleaning and charging.
The Robotaxi model will based on the Cybertruck platform which has a 1 million mile service life. The no stamping design means they don't even need new dies to switch to robotaxi production.
The Roadster 2 is never coming out. It was only announced to get reservation money to support the Model 3 production ramp.
Unless of course, FSD won't be out of beta for decades... ;)
Ye of little faith!
 
FSD is not level 2, it is a level 5 system in training. Read the ISO levels then watch the video.

Cruise, even in consumer mode, will be useless to everyone but inner city commuters as it requires near daily Lidar mapping of the entire route.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but a valid opinion requires some knowledge
 
FSD is not level 2, it is a level 5 system in training.
Currently it requires constant driver supervention and regular intervention so that makes it a Level 2 system. Elon’s stated goal is for level 5 but who knows when that will be.

No one knows for sure what Tesla’s actual plans are (as compared to Elon’s hype,) but I can see a couple of possible routes forward. One would be to make it level 3 on the highway (the current AP stack,) similar to what Mercedes has done with other areas to follow. Another would be to wait until it’s ready then make everything Level 3 at once and another would be to skip level 3 and make it level 4.

The problem with making city driving level 3 is often times you need to intervene fairly quickly in the event of a failure. The nature of highway driving lends itself to level 3 far better than city driving does. Getting true level 3 or 4 in all city environments is also orders of magnitude more difficult than the highway so I can see Tesla offering Level 3 on the highway as a way to have a non-beta marketable product, especially in the face of growing competition.
 
I think the biggest issue with FSDb right now is that other road users (and pedestrians) have no way of knowing that the last <insert FSDb stupid maneuver here> wasn't the person in the drivers seat. I try to warn folks with a Student Driver badge on the back, but they see one person in the car and assume its just me.
 
FSD is not level 2, it is a level 5 system in training. Read the ISO levels then watch the video.

Cruise, even in consumer mode, will be useless to everyone but inner city commuters as it requires near daily Lidar mapping of the entire route.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but a valid opinion requires some knowledge
Who do you expect will find FSD-enabled Robotaxis useful? I'm not sure the concept makes any sense outside of the inner city and densely-populated areas, both due to demand for the service and logistical realities.

Especially if we're talking consumers having their vehicles out shuttling people around when not being used, this will surely need to be limited to shorter distances and timeframes. Even then, I'm not sure how you juggle this with the timing and demands of the vehicle's owner, who might request the vehicle be returned at certain times or on short notice if they suddenly end up needing it for something. What if it's occupied, and what if it's out in Timbuktu or with an occupant who wants to make multiple stops and/or refuses to give it up at that moment?

Are Tesla's seats equipped with the hardware to support an "occupant eject and vehicle return" function? Either way, you presumably wouldn't see consumer FSD Robotaxis out doing long rural routes or even suburban milk runs far away from home base.


There are seriously so many questions around how this would even work
 
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Currently it requires constant driver supervention and regular intervention so that makes it a Level 2 system. Elon’s stated goal is for level 5 but who knows when that will be.
This is not why it would be L2. From the SAE J3016:
The level of a driving automation system feature corresponds to the feature’s production design intent. This applies regardless of whether the vehicle on which it is equipped is a production vehicle already deployed in commerce, or a test vehicle that has yet to be deployed. As such, it is incorrect to classify a level 4 design-intended ADS feature equipped on a test vehicle as level 2 simply because on-road testing requires a test driver to supervise the feature while engaged, and to intervene if necessary to maintain safe operation.
If you search for this quote on the forum you can find endless arguments about it.

Who do you expect will find FSD-enabled Robotaxis useful?
Are you asking who would find a driverless vehicle that can drive anywhere I can useful? Or just the renting it out as a robotaxi?
 
This is not why it would be L2. From the SAE J3016:
The level of a driving automation system feature corresponds to the feature’s production design intent. This applies regardless of whether the vehicle on which it is equipped is a production vehicle already deployed in commerce, or a test vehicle that has yet to be deployed. As such, it is incorrect to classify a level 4 design-intended ADS feature equipped on a test vehicle as level 2 simply because on-road testing requires a test driver to supervise the feature while engaged, and to intervene if necessary to maintain safe operation.​
If you search for this quote on the forum you can find endless arguments about it.​
Sorry, that's an absurd definition. Capabilities are defined by what a system can do, not what you hope it can do. It's like calling a medical student a neurosurgeon because that's what they're planing on doing. It also goes against what you were arguing in this thread.

I have to ask, though, where did you get this quote? When I search the SAE site, I couldn't find it anywhere. I did find this page on taxonomy and definitions. From the site:
although a given vehicle may be equipped with a driving automation system that is capable of delivering multiple driving automation features that perform at different levels, the level of driving automation exhibited in any given instance is determined by the feature(s) that are engaged.
This is a more rational definition and contradicts the quote you posted.
 
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Who do you expect will find FSD-enabled Robotaxis useful? I'm not sure the concept makes any sense outside of the inner city and densely-populated areas, both due to demand for the service and logistical realities.

Especially if we're talking consumers having their vehicles out shuttling people around when not being used, this will surely need to be limited to shorter distances and timeframes. Even then, I'm not sure how you juggle this with the timing and demands of the vehicle's owner, who might request the vehicle be returned at certain times or on short notice if they suddenly end up needing it for something. What if it's occupied, and what if it's out in Timbuktu or with an occupant who wants to make multiple stops and/or refuses to give it up at that moment?

Are Tesla's seats equipped with the hardware to support an "occupant eject and vehicle return" function? Either way, you presumably wouldn't see consumer FSD Robotaxis out doing long rural routes or even suburban milk runs far away from home base.


There are seriously so many questions around how this would even work
In theory once robotaxis are ubiquitous, and enough time goes by (one decade, two?) nobody needs to own a car, you just summon one, and the fleets of these robotaxis would pre-position based on historical demand to keep summon time low.

Yes, there will be us that like to drive, and we will be able to do so as long as the Govt allows it, perhaps pushing us out to the track eventually for entertainment like ATV riding.

The rest of the road will be public transport via robotaxi. People getting their drivers license will be a thing of the past.

Welcome to a possible future...