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FSD v9.0 in Australia is just a con isn't it?

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Hey - as a 78 year old I half object (I'm not half blind nor a nana)
FWIW I think the way that Tesla constantly says "it's 99% done bar some edge cases" is disingenuous. Given that having a car drive itself is an incredible achievement, it's that 1% that's going to be the stumbling block.
Sticking more code in to recognise "edge cases" isn't going to make the other 1% go away: by definition there are an infinite number of them. Even below par drivers have no difficulty recognising just about any "edge" case, from a hand-scrawled emergency sign to a stop/go man's sign that he's got the wrong way round to a car indicating one way while its wheels start turning the other.
 
Honestly.

There's all this talk about v9.0 being late and all, and now it's finally released. Right? Not to us chum. I mean our money was released. When we bought the car and chose the FSD option. But the best we have so far are just YouTube clips of the few that get to test it in the US.

I am not meaning this thread to discuss the technicalities behind FSD. That is discussed countless times elsewhere. What I am concerned about here is that none in Australia seems to be holding Tesla's feet to the fire. I mean, what about us? Our money was just as good as the US's when they took it. So almost a decade later, are we supposed to celebrate some other idiots getting v9.0 FSD in the US with no hint or suggestion as to when we get to muck around with it?


I don't see how it could be any worse actually. We don't even have an anticipated date of release down this end of the globe. Looks like the beta testers will be up to v11.0 and we will be trading in our old Teslas and watching YouTube before we see any of the action.

Sux.
Literally 99% of FSD owners in the USA are in the same boat as you. They only have around 2000 beta testers so far in the USA and according to the forums almost all of them are employees. So you aren't really missing anything that other FSD owners in the USA have. Start complaining when there's a general release (or even the promised 10x expansion of beta to around 10-20k), but it's looking like that is fairly far off.
 
Some people seem to overestimate ‘new’ technology whether it be the next hardware version or the next s/w update etc… Elon admitted himself in his M3 production hell that they relied too heavily on robots and tech when the humble human could do a far better and more efficient job. I’m sure AI has its applications but just don’t expect to see real FSD in the current generation of cars.
 
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Hey - as a 78 year old I half object (I'm not half blind nor a nana)
FWIW I think the way that Tesla constantly says "it's 99% done bar some edge cases" is disingenuous. Given that having a car drive itself is an incredible achievement, it's that 1% that's going to be the stumbling block.
Sticking more code in to recognise "edge cases" isn't going to make the other 1% go away: by definition there are an infinite number of them. Even below par drivers have no difficulty recognising just about any "edge" case, from a hand-scrawled emergency sign to a stop/go man's sign that he's got the wrong way round to a car indicating one way while its wheels start turning the other.
I’m sure tesla’s FSD is near 99% done. Full autonomy though is another matter
 
I agree, but 1% is a significant number of edge cases.. if you had a crash 1 out of every 100 drives.. you'd be very upset.

I haven't purchased it yet, but I think buying it it is more like a donation towards the concept.. and I agree, it may never happen on current hardware.. but also, I think it's 10x better than current cruise control systems out there.. so if they offered it for $5K I'd snap it up as a cruise control with navigation.

I just want it to handle speed zone changes and stop lights automatically and dodge potholes - them I'm in! - I believe both these things are in the current plan.
 
Yeah so here's the logic I can't understand:

"We are not going to release version 9 to the Aussie plebs because it is not perfected yet... So they can keep using the even more imperfect version."

I mean, why can't WE be beta testers too? I want to play. I've paid. I'm safe. Indulge me.
There’s a team of programmers at Tesla working on the feedback from the US beta testers. They aren’t going to overcomplicate it at this early stage by adding other countries with different road rules, signage etc.
I feel your frustration at how long it’s taking. But Australia really is the last place you should live if you want to be in the thick of things.
 
My UK perspective fwiw:

What I find most tiring is the endless battles over semantics. Tesla could well be nearly 99% done with FSD. They could be 100% done and nowhere near having a viable product.

Regardless of such word games, regulatory challenges and gullible owners, car buyers are forking out well more then chump change for FSD.

FWIW I think the way that Tesla constantly says "it's 99% done bar some edge cases" is disingenuous. Given that having a car drive itself is an incredible achievement,

The whole model of marketing through personal recommendation / social media is perfect for 'snake oil'. As in 'The Emporer's New Suit', who wants to admit to not seeing what everyone else claims to see? As with fake news, some truth / success mixes in with a lot of smoke and mirrors to make for a convincing story. Convince enough people and heard mentality takes over.

When you see the latest Beta Test videos in the US perform such awesome but also potentially lethal manoeuvres on public roads, how can FSD owners (especially outside the US) regard their purchase as having been made with full disclosure and honest representation?

Let's not dive right back to semantics. When I bought a car with FSD, one of the things clearest to me was that at that time there was no functional difference between EAP and FSD, yet Tesla were prepared to sell me an upgrade from EAP to FSD. So FSD was a promise to deliver something that might be better than EAP I guess. The only sure thing I'd get was an invoice for £4k or thereabouts.

But the general public don't (and shouldn't need to) research their purchases with the mindset of 'this is a con'. Of course 'buyer beware' and 'fools are easily separated from their money', but consumer protection law exists for a reason.

FSD is Tesla's creation. It IS what they state it to be at any given time, and the emergence of City Streets FSD as some subset of FSD or even a standalone product to some extent - along with all future changes in wording - should not be allowed to detract from reasonable expectations of product performance based on manufacturer / seller representation - which by implication must also be within a reasonable time frame.

With complete disregard for exactly what and exactly when, it is hard to construct a meaningful contract of sale. Dubious / unrealistic / unenforceable contracts are often at the center of mis-selling.

Tesla stripping FSD off cars they buy back (as opposed to other situations giving rise to complaints about missing / removed features) also smacks of unreasonable double-dipping if true.
The open TRADE market value of my MS is likely a minimum £60k and being a showroom condition, low mileage LR Raven with FSD I reckon I could get £70k + at the moment. So why would Tesla offer £55k trade in, and that supposedly including 'an allowance' for FSD?! If Tesla value their cars and software so poorly (whatever the reason) that makes me seriously question the value too. The only tangible hard Tesla benefit I can see that benefits me is their charging network. And it is a big plus even though I hardly use it. Interesting that I feel so differently about FSD.
 
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I agree, but 1% is a significant number of edge cases.. if you had a crash 1 out of every 100 drives.. you'd be very upset.

I haven't purchased it yet, but I think buying it it is more like a donation towards the concept.. and I agree, it may never happen on current hardware.. but also, I think it's 10x better than current cruise control systems out there.. so if they offered it for $5K I'd snap it up as a cruise control with navigation.

I just want it to handle speed zone changes and stop lights automatically and dodge potholes - them I'm in! - I believe both these things are in the current plan.
There is no way the current tesla cruise control is the best out there. The random full slam on the brakes thing makes it one of the most dangerous out there. If they fix that, it would be decent as a cruise control.
 
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You're lending money at no interest to Tesla to help them to fund something new. It's a bit like the $1500 down payment on the Model 3 when it had no release date in Oz. Or the $60k (US, I think) down payment on the Roadster 2.0 which also has no release date. Or the $100 on the Cybertruck that has millions of people buying in.

If you don't like the model, then don't buy into it. Clearly that hasn't stopped people from buying in, they are getting something that is improving all the time - albeit sometimes slowly and with no end date. I'll see how I feel when it comes time to change up to a modern 3/Y, but I'm inclined to buy in.