FSD V9 First Impressions - General Public Access Seems Way Off

[Terminator857]

... How about someone wanting to try it in a school zone during morning drop off and see how well it can navigate around kids and parents? ...

That is a common scenario for me, except for navigate around. Usually just stop and wait, not much navigating around. Traveling at 15 mph I would think I could stop the car quickly enough if it does the wrong thing. Or maybe I'm fooling myself.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Even knowing it's beta, and accepting all the warnings and previsos, I can't see how to avoid complacency.

From watching the videos only a crazy person would get complacent. To me this is a much bigger long term problem. There is an enormous gap between where they are now and superhuman and I don't see how they keep people alert once it can go months between errors.
I'm not convinced it will ever get safer than it is now (when used by real humans, always have to include that caveat around here). For all I know it's actually safe enough right now because it induces hyper vigilance in the driver.

 

[Terminator857]

From watching the videos only a crazy person would get complacent. To me this is a much bigger long term problem. There is an enormous gap between where they are now and superhuman and I don't see how they keep people alert once it can go months between errors.
I'm not convinced it will ever get safer than it is now (when used by real humans, always have to include that caveat around here). For all I know it's actually safe enough right now because it induces hyper vigilance in the driver.

Perhaps with thousands of FSD drivers months between errors, that means every week we will get a youtube video saying FSD near miss / wrecked my car.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Perhaps with thousands of FSD drivers months between errors, that means every week we will get a youtube video saying FSD wrecked my car.

Remember all the Smart Summon videos? There will definitely be videos until everyone stops using it. Elon said Smart Summon was the most viral feature ever, FSD beta wide release will be a whole other level.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Remember all the Smart Summon videos? There will definitely be videos until everyone stops using it. Elon said Smart Summon was the most viral feature ever, FSD beta wide release will be a whole other level.

It's a bit different than Smart Summon in that it will be right there at your fingertips, so even if it's completely useless, people will be much more willing to try it out. With Smart Summon it has so many limitations that it's useless (even if you didn't care about your car) to everyone but the most patient and "unique" individuals. It's basically only usefu and accessible with minimal overhead,l if you've already taken the time to set up your video equipment.

Any potential FSD Beta wide release (which seems unlikely for at least a few months, if ever!) I think is likely to be much more frequently used, even if it's completely useless. I don't think it will have the same type of end game, where no one uses it. It would be just too tempting for people to play with and there would be no barriers to entry.

 

[PhantomX]

From watching the videos only a crazy person would get complacent. To me this is a much bigger long term problem. There is an enormous gap between where they are now and superhuman and I don't see how they keep people alert once it can go months between errors.
I'm not convinced it will ever get safer than it is now (when used by real humans, always have to include that caveat around here). For all I know it's actually safe enough right now because it induces hyper vigilance in the driver.

I think that is true if you are talking about normal, sane people. However, there are people who likes to push the envelope. Think of the people who sleeps while on AP or people who climb out of driver seat while on AP. As much as we don't think those people exist, they do and they will abuse FSD. And the consequences on street is much much higher than on freeway.

 

[SDRick]

It looks like it will be a while. My best guess is October.
I'm just not sure which year.

 

[mmyers300]

After watching tons of videos, I put together a 10 minute compilation that I think summarizes what I gathered: FSD v9 is better than v8.2 but not necessarily in terms of actually doing better at the non-so-normal situations.

Top Comments from all videos:

• Smooth – you will hear this multiple times per video. Much less jerking or jittery steering wheel actions
• More natural – accelerating, braking, and during corners and lane changes also, the car just drives more naturally

Honestly, this just about summarizes everything I saw. The vast majority of improvements seem to center around it being smoother and more natural. In terms of it actually handling more non-standard situations, probably a little bit… There may be some less fails, but there are still some very serious fails.

Compilation:

Maybe my expectations were set too high... If this were just billed as a move from radar + camera to camera-only, then I would have been very impressed that it would even perform as well as radar + camera. This is a huge accomplishment, IMO.

 

[SDRick]

After watching tons of videos, I put together a 10 minute compilation that I think summarizes what I gathered: FSD v9 is better than v8.2 but not necessarily in terms of actually doing better at the non-so-normal situations.

Top Comments from all videos:

• Smooth – you will hear this multiple times per video. Much less jerking or jittery steering wheel actions
• More natural – accelerating, braking, and during corners and lane changes also, the car just drives more naturally

Honestly, this just about summarizes everything I saw. The vast majority of improvements seem to center around it being smoother and more natural. In terms of it actually handling more non-standard situations, probably a little bit… There may be some less fails, but there are still some very serious fails.

Compilation:

Maybe my expectations were set too high... If this were just billed as a move from radar + camera to camera-only, then I would have been very impressed that it would even perform as well as radar + camera. This is a huge accomplishment, IMO.

Beautiful compilation! Thank you for that.

It shows how far we have come, but also how far we have to go.

 

[Terminator857]

... the consequences on street is much much higher than on freeway.

What makes you say that? Is that because of bicyclists and pedestrians? If yes, then yes the consequences are higher as are the rewards. I would think Tesla knows this and is prioritizing training for those. Where accidents are most likely to happen in my opinion are:

1. Things the vehicle hasn't been trained for: such as pillars, pot holes, odd objects
2. Low visibility situations such as: looking into the sun, dark, rain, snow, fog, dust, etc...
3. Difficult and unexpected situations such as busy 6 lane highway unprotected left turn.

If the most common kind of accident is getting rear ended then that should be easy for FSD to avoid. In general the common cases should be easy to avoid, the uncommon ones are the ones the human has to help with. I think you will find a statistic that 40% of accidents are by impaired drivers, tired, drugs, etc... That is another case where I think FSD should have any easy time helping with.

 

[PhantomX]

What makes you say that? Is that because of bicyclists and pedestrians? If yes, then yes the consequences are higher as are the rewards. I would think Tesla knows this and is prioritizing training for those. Where accidents are most likely to happen in my opinion are:

1. Things the vehicle hasn't been trained for: such as pillars, pot holes, odd objects
2. Low visibility situations such as: looking into the sun, dark, rain, snow, fog, dust, etc...
3. Difficult and unexpected situations such as busy 6 lane highway unprotected left turn.

If the most common kind of accident is getting rear ended then that should be easy for FSD to avoid. In general the common cases should be easy to avoid, the uncommon ones are the ones the human has to help with. I think you will find a statistic that 40% of accidents are by impaired drivers, tired, drugs, etc... That is another case where I think FSD should have any easy time helping with.

Street driving is much more complicated than freeway because there are just many more degree of freedoms in a street setting. Driving in an urban area, you can easily run into situation where people run red lights, jaywalking, bicycles not stopping for stop signs, and etc. And if an FSD fails a unprotected left turn, it could very well be a side impact on excess of 40mph delta in speed. Where I live, many roads have 50 or 55 mph. A little mistake can turn deadly very quickly at that speed. You don't have these scenarios on divided highways or freeways because those are controlled environments with speed and lane being the main degree of freedoms.

 

[Silicon Desert]

How many real people use current FSD functions on highways (you know, where that feature is supposed to be used), and how many fatalities in the past 5 years directly attributed to FSD/AP/EAP?

I'll take those odds anytime. But then again, I read and follow instructions and heed warnings.

yup me too. I will be happy for the time being to have v9 working on the interstate, since that is mostly what I do anyway, but sure, most people want the whole cake right out of the box.

 

[mark95476]

You paid $6k for something worth $10k (each) and you've had it for years.

Maybe you should due Tesla.
/s

Yes FSD was way cheaper in 2017 but don’t forget EAP was not free. Combined cost of purchase of EAP/FSD after car was delivered wasn’t much cheaper than today’s price. My cars got it for less because I bought for both during the Spring 2019 “sale” — a total of $12k for the two cars. That $6k/car was a real bargain at the time. But what do I have to show for it today?

 

[Terminator857]

Street driving is much more complicated than freeway because there are just many more degree of freedoms in a street setting. ...

Freeway driving is difficult because of the high speeds 85+ mph and little time to react. I know there are people afraid to go on freeway, but are o.k. with street driving.

 

[agtdDelirium]

I have watched a good sampling of the v9 videos, and it is certainly not ready for prime time, reinforcing how far we still are from anything being close to the FSD promise. But I WANT it. I paid for this software promise 4 1/2 years ago.

I think we all forget how terrible EAP was when first released, cresting blind hills with a sudden jerking of the wheel, lane drift, inability to keep the appropriate speed on corners, etc. I still used it with careful monitoring of the car, and I know I could use v9 the same way as it slowly improves over time. I drive the same routes 95% of the time. I have learned where to trust the car and where it is going to misbehave. It really will not be any different with v9.

I can easily see Tesla releasing this within probably 2-3 months. It will be very publicized how "beta" it is. Use at known risk. It will not be relaxing to use at first. And if it causes me too much anxiety (like summon does), I will not use it except in known situations where it has proved itself. But I have earned ($ X 4.5 years) the right to use it responsibly.

 

[arri]

I have watched a good sampling of the v9 videos, and it is certainly not ready for prime time, reinforcing how far we still are from anything being close to the FSD promise. But I WANT it. I paid for this software promise 4 1/2 years ago.

I think we all forget how terrible EAP was when first released, cresting blind hills with a sudden jerking of the wheel, lane drift, inability to keep the appropriate speed on corners, etc. I still used it with careful monitoring of the car, and I know I could use v9 the same way as it slowly improves over time. I drive the same routes 95% of the time. I have learned where to trust the car and where it is going to misbehave. It really will not be any different with v9.

I can easily see Tesla releasing this within probably 2-3 months. It will be very publicized how "beta" it is. Use at known risk. It will not be relaxing to use at first. And if it causes me too much anxiety (like summon does), I will not use it except in known situations where it has proved itself. But I have earned ($ X 4.5 years) the right to use it responsibly.

TWO WEEKS

 

[Dan D.]

I have watched a good sampling of the v9 videos, and it is certainly not ready for prime time, reinforcing how far we still are from anything being close to the FSD promise. But I WANT it. I paid for this software promise 4 1/2 years ago.

I think we all forget how terrible EAP was when first released, cresting blind hills with a sudden jerking of the wheel, lane drift, inability to keep the appropriate speed on corners, etc. I still used it with careful monitoring of the car, and I know I could use v9 the same way as it slowly improves over time. I drive the same routes 95% of the time. I have learned where to trust the car and where it is going to misbehave. It really will not be any different with v9.

I can easily see Tesla releasing this within probably 2-3 months. It will be very publicized how "beta" it is. Use at known risk. It will not be relaxing to use at first. And if it causes me too much anxiety (like summon does), I will not use it except in known situations where it has proved itself. But I have earned ($ X 4.5 years) the right to use it responsibly.

I totally understand your desire to participate in the FSD Beta, having paid for it and waited.

If there are one or a few major accidents that occur while using it, then Tesla will probably have to pull it, so I can see why they are limiting it. IMO there shouldn't be any untrained non-employees driving it, but that's Tesla's doing.

It's mean of them to continually tempt paid customers with the "soon there will be a button, FSD for everyone". But this is a company that loves hype.

If you really can't wait and have a bit more money to spend, maybe people could try Comma.ai in their Teslas and post about it. Shame Tesla into supporting its customers better.

 

[PhantomX]

Freeway driving is difficult because of the high speeds 85+ mph and little time to react. I know there are people afraid to go on freeway, but are o.k. with street driving.

I know people who don't like driving on freeway either. But the high speed on freeway is only dangerous if the speed difference between cars are really that big. Very rarely would someone go at 80mph next to a car going at 0mph. On the street, it's regular occurrence where one would see large speed difference, and as such, the risk of high energy impact is much higher.

Also, on the freeway, the typical high energy impact is either at front or back. Very rarely would someone experience high energy side impact, which has least amount of protection. On the street, the chance of high energy side impact is much greater, and therefore the risk of serious consequence is higher when mistake is made.

 

[Terminator857]

Very rarely would someone go at 80mph next to a car going at 0mph.

You haven't driven on California's congested freeways then. Happens everyday. And rear end collisions because of this are very common.

 

[Kingoglow]

You haven't driven on California's congested freeways then. Happens everyday. And rear end collisions because of this are very common.

I have driven in California and I am convinced that most of those people just wake up in the morning intent on wrecking their car so they can buy a new one.