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Post v11 FSDb all firmware releases to include FSDb (rumor)
- Thread starter lb92677
- Start date
I think its much more likely that the so called merge with production is making news out of something that Tesla does all the time.
Each new release tends to be built on a more up to date major version 2022.40 for instance.
Then the actual FSD release comes out as a minor build of that while leaving the majority of cars on a different minor release
So FSD could get 2022.44.24.3 while the majority get 2022.44.24.4
Still based on the same major version but completely separate releases, as seen since FSD releases started.
Each new release tends to be built on a more up to date major version 2022.40 for instance.
Then the actual FSD release comes out as a minor build of that while leaving the majority of cars on a different minor release
So FSD could get 2022.44.24.3 while the majority get 2022.44.24.4
Still based on the same major version but completely separate releases, as seen since FSD releases started.
it sounds like a some folks are getting upgraded to 40.4.10 (which is 69.3.3), which makes me think that needs more testing and V11 isn't ready yet
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Yes, it also means that with v11 "single stack", Standard Autopilot will be a subset of FSD. I expect the following w. v11:
- all safety features of FSD will be standard on all Tesla cars (ie: intervenes before you run a red light)
- only "convenience" features will be extra cost via EAP or FSD options (lane changes, autopark, fwd/reverse summon)
- the entire fleet will be capable of sending video clips back to the mothership for FSD training
- the vol of data collected, miles logged, events witnessed, will increase by ~20x vs the current beta program
Cheers!
jebinc
Well-Known Member
ohhh, Elon said... that's confidence right there.The info is from notateslaapp.com :
Elon Musk Says Tesla Will Roll Out FSD Beta V11 Next Week
Tesla will begin a full rollout of V11 of its Full Self-Driving Beta software next week, according to CEO Elon Musk.www.notateslaapp.com
By the way...
That "next week" was last week.
Do you have other examples of what safety features you believe have been available with FSD Beta compared to regular Autopilot? Typically the safety features kick in even when Autopilot isn't even active, and I don't think there's been any difference with FSD Beta 10.x? I believe some people have reported FSD Beta doing emergency maneuvers including steering to avoid accidents, but that's harder to confirm especially if Autopilot / FSD Beta was even still actively driving.
More generally, it sounded like you were describing basic Autopilot as running on the FSD Beta stack, and that could be possible but not something people have been able to do with FSD Beta 10.x so far. Notably, there's still a toggle in the Autopilot settings to turn on and off "Full Self-Driving (Beta)" which also controls the FSD Beta visualizations even without Autopilot active. Having the visualizations always show new / FSD-Beta-like road edges, etc. could indicate the legacy Autopilot stack is removed, but a natural progression with potentially less risk is to still have both stacks available.
Your other points like the basically the full fleet being able to send back data does make sense, and that can still happen in shadow mode with the FSD Beta neural networks available in all vehicles but not actively driving Autopilot with or without FSD.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
I expect unsafe lane changes, or anything that would result in an accident to cause intervention, even with Std Autopilot. Some of these things are done now (ie: AEB) but "single-stack" will have more robust abilities and the benefit of all the FSD training data.
This is precisely what "single-stack" means. There will be no "other" Autopilot stack present to switch to. Both Navigate-on-Autopilot and Navigate-on-City-Streets will be done by the same stack.
Tesla is already up against "compute" constraints on FSD Computer v3 with the current generation of neural nets required to support FSD beta. So much compute, they're now running separate NNs on the 2 separate cores, rather than mirroring all calculations on both CPU cores. IMO, it's very unlikely that they have enough compute to run anything in shadow mode that isn't tightly integrated into FSD/Autopilot.
One potential interpretation of "single stack" is "just" having FSD Beta's city streets driving behavior only replace what Navigate on Autopilot has handled with the legacy stack. For example, there's some indications that even on city streets, the legacy stack still handles some behaviors such as lane departure warning with a brief switch to the old visualizations then back to FSD Beta's visualizations. So maybe that's one way to verify if "single stack" actually replaced more/all so that there's no "other" stack.
At least from an engineering perspective, it would be quite the effort to simultaneously replace all usages of the legacy stack compared to letting FSD Beta continue when entering an interstate and leaving other things unchanged (for the short term). If Tesla does achieve that in one go, then that's an even more impressive feat and maybe even why it's taken so long to get it deployed wider than employees.
Yup totally agree. I believe back in May this year, single stack networks were detected in shadow mode for use on interstates, so indeed the then FSD Beta networks definitely could not run at the same time as a separate in-development single stack network, but plain Autopilot could run with single stack shadow mode. For example, at Autonomy Day 2019, Tesla said they were able to get 21x compute on the FSD computer compared to HW2.5, so if we say the legacy networks take up basically all of HW2.5, that's roughly 5% of FSD computer. So similarly if FSD Beta related networks take up more than 50%, then 5% legacy + >50% current FSD Beta + >50% single stack shadow mode exceeds the compute budget while 5% legacy + >50% single stack shadow mode would work on interstates.
Of course only Tesla knows what the actual compute budgets are with current version of the various neural networks, but if there is "excess" compute to keep running the legacy stack along with the new single stack networks, then that could allow for an earlier release of FSD Beta 11. However, the recent changes to FSD Beta such as 10.69's introduction of "two-stage architecture" ("sparsification enables efficient allocation of compute" at AI Day 2022) do seem to point to speed things up although maybe more of a focus on latency (e.g., for highway speeds) than throughput.
goRt
Active Member
Cast your mind back ~9 months when musky asserted that single stack would be deployed after 1 week's internal testing, a further week FSDb testing, he then "found out" that it was a bigger job and would take a month of training
And here we are
It’s truly incredible. I think Elon is an amazing guy and love my M3. But with respect to full self driving, he appears to be a snake oil salesman. I’m just glad I only paid $6000 for it. I will say I really like having the car change lanes for me. And while I generally don’t let it maneuver exits for me, navigate on autopilot has sometimes helped remind me that I’m about to miss my exit. Those two things are worth the price of entry. But I sure would like actual full self driving on city streets as I was promised.
jebinc
Well-Known Member
The choke point will be processing all the data. DoJo isn’t even close for being ready. Just a few clusters/tiles/whatever they call it, are running.
jebinc
Well-Known Member
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
Well yes it did......... for about 42 privileged employees and one consultant.
That's the issue. Even if I like a lot of what Elon does, I am hopeful for future statements to not be so vague and generalized. It would be good for people to know on more occasions as to who is actually getting what. Sorry Mr. E.
That is NOT a rollout and V11 has not rolled out. That is internal testing. To be a rollout it MUST go to some customers and V11 hasn't.Well yes it did......... for about 42 privileged employees and one consultant.
Analogy, Apple has employees testing iOS 17. But it is NOT rolled out. It is internal testing. Same applies to Tesla.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
yes of course. appreciate your comment for folks, a bad attempt of sarcasm on my part. yet he did call it a rollout in one case.
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