FSD very far away due to regulations?

[CarlK]

They’re meant to be broken? Wtf man

Like wedding vows? No?

And did you watch ANY commercials?

 

[electronblue]

Like wedding vows? No?

And did you watch ANY commercials?

I guess it can be argued products specifications are more like contractual obligations though when making sales. In reality how Tesla’s promises there are interpreted depends on who challenges them and where of course. P85D HP specs were for example challenged in some markets and found wanting by a court so different from merely some advertising slogans being misleading.

After all Tesla’s promises discussed here have often been made Design Studio, a direct component of making the sale, which can be seen more a contract negotiation between the buyer and the seller rather than an advertisement.

 

[JeffK]

Sensor suite certainly is not retrofittable.

This isn't exactly true. This isn't like AP1 vs no AP or AP 2 vs AP 1. In this particular case, the wiring for all the sensors is already present. If the sensors needed upgrading then they can certainly do it. If you want to add an additional sensor, then that's another story.

 

[electronblue]

This isn't exactly true. This isn't like AP1 vs no AP or AP 2 vs AP 1. In this particular case, the wiring for all the sensors is already present. If the sensors needed upgrading then they can certainly do it. If you want to add an additional sensor, then that's another story.

On Reddit there have been Model Y alleged rumors of HW3.5 with increased sensor suite (more sensors).

 

[JeffK]

On Reddit there have been Model Y alleged rumors of HW3.5 with increased sensor suite (more sensors).

MobilEye is moving to a 12 camera system as well but two of those cameras are in the mirrors facing down to aid in parking the other two face the front and rear on the hood and in the back window. They also are wanting radar covering all corners plus front and rear.

Who knows what Tesla will do with Model Y, but they'll need to make it work for HW 2.0+ wiring or it's going to cost them a lot of money to fulfill their promise.

What worries me is this tweet:
Elon Musk on Twitter

I have to disagree with Elon there if the upgrade doesn't actually provide FSD.

Tesla will likely add two cameras to the Model Y for one of two reasons... for the 360 degree view people are always complaining about that they want for parking (adding cameras to the side mirrors facing downward), or to replace the side mirrors.

 

[CarlK]

I guess it can be argued products specifications are more like contractual obligations though when making sales. In reality how Tesla’s promises there are interpreted depends on who challenges them and where of course. P85D HP specs were for example challenged in some markets and found wanting by a court so different from merely some advertising slogans being misleading.

After all Tesla’s promises discussed here have often been made Design Studio, a direct component of making the sale, which can be seen more a contract negotiation between the buyer and the seller rather than an advertisement.

The HP spec fiasco is much ado about nothing. There are so many ways to spec the horsepower even for single axle driven ICE cars. Again it only interests a few people like us on forums but majority of owners, including die hard car guys and especially for die hard car guys, only care how quick the car will go when you punch the pedal.

This isn't exactly true. This isn't like AP1 vs no AP or AP 2 vs AP 1. In this particular case, the wiring for all the sensors is already present. If the sensors needed upgrading then they can certainly do it. If you want to add an additional sensor, then that's another story.

Don't think even that will happen. The LCD screen is an example. I of course could be wrong but chance that could happen is real small.

 

[JeffK]

Don't think you will even be able to have that. The LCD screen is an example but I of course could be wrong.

The LCD screen isn't a sensor... The sensors do unplug easily

 

[electronblue]

The HP spec fiasco is much ado about nothing. There are so many ways to spec the horsepower even for single axle driven ICE cars. Again it only interests a few people like us on forums but majority of owners, including die hard car guys and especially for die hard car guys, only care how quick the car will go when you punch the pedal.

That could be convenient but you forget Tesla missed the 0-60 specs as well with P90D right after the P85D HP debacle while also repeating the P85D HP debacle also on P90D.

Anyway in Norway a court ruled Tesla misled with P85D HP and mandated some compensations so there is that.

Good thing is that Tesla cleaned up their act for P100D which is spec-wise the first solid Performance Tesla since classic P85.

 

[CarlK]

That could be convenient but you forget Tesla missed the 0-60 specs as well with P90D right after the P85D HP debacle while also repeating the P85D HP debacle also on P90D.

Anyway in Norway a court ruled Tesla misled with P85D HP and mandated some compensations so there is that.

Good thing is that Tesla cleaned up their act for P100D which is spec-wise the first solid Performance Tesla since classic P85.

I don't recall Tesla missed P90D 0-60 spec. Tesla is known to be pretty accurate, if not a bit conservative, in quoting performance numbers. Unlike most auto manufacturers their 0-60 numbers usually could only be achieved by professional drivers under optimum conditions.

 

[electronblue]

I don't recall Tesla missed P90D 0-60 spec. Tesla is known to be pretty accurate, if not a bit conservative, in quoting performance numbers. Unlike most auto manufacturers their 0-60 numbers usually could only be achieved by professional drivers under optimum conditions.

You would be mistaken about that when it comes to P85D and P90D era, their Ludicrous versions and the V1-3 story of the latter.

There is plenty on the topic on Reddit and this forum, just of the top of Google some talk here:

P90D - What battery versions should I avoid?

 

[Daniel in SD]

There is probably a law somewhere that says something like "the driver must be paying sufficient attention to the task". The nag would therefore be Tesla's way of proving they are attending to the spirit of that law.

The NHTSA has said that the driver is the car when in FSD (look at link in this thread). Waymo has a permit for self driving cars with no driver in the car. They are required to be able to remotely drive the car so it is only level 4 autonomy. No nags...

 

[Shock-On-T]

The NHTSA has said that the driver is the car when in FSD (look at link in this thread). Waymo has a permit for self driving cars with no driver in the car. They are required to be able to remotely drive the car so it is only level 4 autonomy. No nags...

I'm talking about the legal need for nags with the current autopilot.
Someone said there was no law requiring nags, and my conjecture was that there might be a law requiring attentiveness, which nags would address.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I'm talking about the legal need for nags with the current autopilot.
Someone said there was no law requiring nags, and my conjecture was that there might be a law requiring attentiveness, which nags would address.

My bad. I suspect that it's more a matter of wanting to make EAP safer and not wanting the NHTSA to step in and ban EAP. They have a lot of discretion to regulate when it comes to safety.

 

[Joel]

There's alot of info on Tesla's adas map tile here

Tesla Autopilot maps

I read that thread. No where in that thread does it state Tesla’s ADAS file size nor is it an exhaustive list of Tesla’s ADAS format, information, or description. In fact the contributors of that thread go out of their way to state, they only have limited visibility and not complete insight into Tesla’s ADAS tiles and maps.

You are assuming it’s larger And does not include the same information as Mobileye because Tesla is not Mobileye.

 

[lunitiks]

Anyway in Norway a court ruled Tesla misled with P85D HP and mandated some compensations so there is that.

Not exactly. Tesla actually settled the p85d debacle with the owners days before the civil court trial, so there never was a ruling

 

[Bladerskb]

I read that thread. No where in that thread does it state Tesla’s ADAS file size nor is it an exhaustive list of Tesla’s ADAS format, information, or description. In fact the contributors of that thread go out of their way to state, they only have limited visibility and not complete insight into Tesla’s ADAS tiles and maps.

You are assuming it’s larger And does not include the same information as Mobileye because Tesla is not Mobileye.

It doesn't, because its NN cant detect traffic signs or traffic lights, stop line, barriers, etc... This is not guess work, this is a fact.

 

[Joel]

It doesn't, because its NN cant detect traffic signs or traffic lights, stop line, barriers, etc... This is not guess work, this is a fact.

Please cite your source. You truly believe Tesla’s NN “can’t”? Or are you guessing it “can’t” because no one on these forums has been able to view the code? (Perhaps the NN is not active).

Again, please site your source that Tesla’s NN “can’t.”

 

[Bladerskb]

Please cite your source. You truly believe Tesla’s NN “can’t”? Or are you guessing it “can’t” because no one on these forums has been able to view the code? (Perhaps the NN is not active).

Again, please site your source that Tesla’s NN “can’t.”

greentheonly

The NN that detects barriers, lights, signs, etc doesn't EXIST in production cars therefore Tesla CAN'T build HD Maps using it.

In acouple months when v10 Firmware is released, it will come with NN that detects lights and signs and @verygreen will do videos on it.
Plain and simple. Why won't you Tesla fans accept the plain truth? Why do you ppl love myths?

 

[CarlK]

I guess it can be argued products specifications are more like contractual obligations though when making sales. In reality how Tesla’s promises there are interpreted depends on who challenges them and where of course. P85D HP specs were for example challenged in some markets and found wanting by a court so different from merely some advertising slogans being misleading.

After all Tesla’s promises discussed here have often been made Design Studio, a direct component of making the sale, which can be seen more a contract negotiation between the buyer and the seller rather than an advertisement.

No need to continue beating dead horses on these pretty much non-issues. Other auto companies make a lot more promises or exaggerations although they are doing those hiding behind ad agencies and dealer salesmen. Nonetheless these things have same impacts on consumers' decisions or else why they are spending such resources doing that. In comparison Tesla is the most honest and transparent car company you can find. There will always be some oversights or missteps but these are nothing compare to deliberate deception others are doing like emission device cheats (VW, BMW, Merc, Fiat/Chrysler,..), GM ignition switch fiasco or Toyota hiding Prius inverter sudden power loss problem, just to name a few.

 

[Knightshade]

That's not what I meant. I meant HW3 equipped cars will not get free retrofit when HW4, 5 6... comes out in the future.

Not sure why you think so, given they've explicitly said the opposite.

If anybody already paid for FSD they are guaranteed to get FSD, at no further cost, with whatever HW is needed to make that happen in the car they bought FSD for. (or Tesla is guaranteed on the hook for some huge lawsuits).

This fact is one of the most likely reasons they stopped selling FSD- they don't want to remain on the hook for an unknown amount of further upgrades for just the low 3k price they were selling it for.


Now- if they manage to get FSD (as defined by the original feature list when sold to you) working with HW3 (or HW5 or whatever) and then come out with a FURTHER upgrade doing more than FSDs original promise, that wouldn't neccesarily be free.