FSD vs Non FSD Smoothness

[BennyMountfort]

Talking latest non FSD vs FSD
Question - Besides the added functionality of FSD (auto lane change, summon etc) is autopilot better / smoother with FSD by incorporating map data?

My Radar is honestly a little ADHD. It will brake suddenly if there is corner and it can see the car in the other lane, brake when i'm about to climb a hill and accelerate over a crest and rocket me through corners.

Now I expect this as its just assistance features at the moment, however, Im wondering if even without Navigate on AP, FSD will use map data or anything else to make for a smoother experience? My A5 used to handle some basic radar tasks much nicer as if the radar was given some valium.

In Australia, we wont have Nav on AP for a while and want to know besides the other features if its worth it.

 

[Marius A]

Talking latest non FSD vs FSD
Question - Besides the added functionality of FSD (auto lane change, summon etc) is autopilot better / smoother with FSD by incorporating map data?

My Radar is honestly a little ADHD. It will brake suddenly if there is corner and it can see the car in the other lane, brake when i'm about to climb a hill and accelerate over a crest and rocket me through corners.

Now I expect this as its just assistance features at the moment, however, Im wondering if even without Navigate on AP, FSD will use map data or anything else to make for a smoother experience? My A5 used to handle some basic radar tasks much nicer as if the radar was given some valium.

In Australia, we wont have Nav on AP for a while and want to know besides the other features if its worth it.

First of all, are you using AP on supported roads? It's only meant for multi-lane highways with clearly painted lanes and no possibility of going into a lane of the opposite direction.

FSD is no smoother than AP. The only addition is automatic lane change, nothing else. FSD only uses map data to know when to look for an exit, but it's still the same sensors being used to actually exit the lane.

AP is a very rough system. It gets gradually better with updates but it's still got a long way to go if you compare with other cars. Speaking from my experience with Mazda, BMW, Audi, Hyundai, VW and Mercedes. Phantom breaking is a massive issue in most of Europe, so I start every trip with turning off automatic emergency breaking (it will turn on by itself automatically).
I wish it was possible to do the same with TACC, but unfortunately it isn't.
IMHO the only bad part about the TM3 is the phantom breaking and hyper-sensitivity to other objects in the world. Additionally, for me, I cannot find a comfortable place to rest my right foot while TACC/AP is on, so I don't use those features for shorter trips (sub 2 hours). I really miss having a functioning CC, but that's the price you pay for early adoption.

I've had one LR AWD with FSD and one TM3P+ without FSD, they were both about equally bad.

 

[user212_nr]

First of all, are you using AP on supported roads? It's only meant for multi-lane highways with clearly painted lanes and no possibility of going into a lane of the opposite direction.

Right, that's how we all use it... it clearly works on single lane highways, but speed is limited to 50mph and you need to be watchful of curves.

Talking latest non FSD vs FSD
Question - Besides the added functionality of FSD (auto lane change, summon etc) is autopilot better / smoother with FSD by incorporating map data?

FSD is not yet available. It is available for purchase, but largely it does not even exist yet.

Navigate on Autopilot and Autopilot are the same code, but one is restricted to certain features.

 

[TomB985]

I use autopilot on most roads outside of the city, and have had great luck for the most part. FSD doesn't add anything to the autopilot system other than the ability to automatically change lanes. Otherwise the system is identical. Some have noticed a difference between HW 2.5 and 3.0, but all cars with regular autopilot manufactured after the middle of last year have HW 3.0 as well.

I just purchased the FSD upgrade last weekend, and will hopefully get upgraded to HW 3.0 in the coming weeks. But I suspect software refinement over time will make more of a difference in limiting the Phantom braking and harshness than the computer upgrade will.

 

[robl45]

So this is interesting. So I have the basic autopilot in my 2019. If there is cones blocking part of the lane, the car will not move around them, it will just go straight and hit them, will the FSD system go around the cones?

Also, Say I'm coming off a highway and there is basically a 90 degree turn, the standard autopilot will bail halfway through the turn and make me take over, The FSD does it take the full turn? Otherwise what is the point?

 

[sduck]

FSD is not yet available. It is available for purchase, but largely it does not even exist yet.

Thank you for posting that. People should really have better clarity on this.

 

[TomB985]

So this is interesting. So I have the basic autopilot in my 2019. If there is cones blocking part of the lane, the car will not move around them, it will just go straight and hit them, will the FSD system go around the cones?

No difference at all. Autopilot functions the exact same unless you initiate a lane change with the turn signal stop. On NOA, the system will recognize road cones and change lanes with them, but that isn't available outside of closed multilane freeways.

Also, Say I'm coming off a highway and there is basically a 90 degree turn, the standard autopilot will bail halfway through the turn and make me take over, The FSD does it take the full turn? Otherwise what is the point?

Also no change. NOA will take the exit ramp, then serve a notice "Navigate on Autopilot ending in XXX feet", at which point it will transition to regular Autopilot. If the driver doesn't take over, it will either stop for traffic in front of it or blow right through the intersection.

 

[robl45]

So not to be mean, but what is everyone paying 7000 for? Stopping at stop signs and lights does no good if it can't make a turn. Nor frankly does it do much good if the stupid thing can't move around in its lane which honestly I figured FSD would do. I'm dumbfounded by that honestly, how can it not see there is a cone or sets of cones or whatever object in front, look at the lane and move over in the lane to avoid that. I mean that is basic accident avoidance. I really wanted the FSD for my trip to the kids camp that is 750 miles each way. Wanted to get a car with the old EAP but this one was available locally and is newer without EAP. It seems that I'm really missing nothing other than autolane changes. I figured with FSD I could fall asleep. (Kidding) but I did figure it would do something a bit more.

Here is another thing that has happened to me here, not with the Tesla though. The trucks drop those retreads on the road, I ran over one with my old prius and did some nice damage to the front bumper. Its quite clear the Tesla would just drive into it as well at least with the standard autopilot. Would the FSD one go around it?

No difference at all. Autopilot functions the exact same unless you initiate a lane change with the turn signal stop. On NOA, the system will recognize road cones and change lanes with them, but that isn't available outside of closed multilane freeways.



Also no change. NOA will take the exit ramp, then serve a notice "Navigate on Autopilot ending in XXX feet", at which point it will transition to regular Autopilot. If the driver doesn't take over, it will either stop for traffic in front of it or blow right through the intersection.

 

[TomB985]

FSD is not currently available. For anybody, whether they paid $7K or not.

Everybody is paying for future functionality. We’ve been promised stop signs, lights, and full navigation through city streets. At some point.

 

[user212_nr]

So not to be mean, but what is everyone paying 7000 for?

I think now you are understanding it a bit better.

To reiterate, there is no FSD available in any car. Navigate on Autopilot is available to those who have purchased FSD, but do not yet have it because it is still being developed.

It is a creative finance technique called crowdfunding, just like the practice of asking for $1,000 deposits in order to reserve a car that does not exist yet. Persons are investing in Tesla and instead of receiving stock, they receive perks and promises. Kickstarter and Indegogo use this technique.

The claim is also that the price will rise to 20-30k if/when they are able to deliver. So for those who believe the promises, it would be worth it.

 

[The_Observer]

I think now you are understanding it a bit better.

To reiterate, there is no FSD available in any car. Navigate on Autopilot is available to those who have purchased FSD, but do not yet have it because it is still being developed.

It is a creative finance technique called crowdfunding, just like the practice of asking for $1,000 deposits in order to reserve a car that does not exist yet. Persons are investing in Tesla and instead of receiving stock, they receive perks and promises. Kickstarter and Indegogo use this technique.

The claim is also that the price will rise to 20-30k if/when they are able to deliver. So for those who believe the promises, it would be worth it.

Technically NoA is available on EAP as well, but that's discontinued a long while ago.

 

[BennyMountfort]

Interesting responses, thanks for your info. I think the crowdfunding method is surely a smart one from Tesla but is a bit annoying on the consumer end. Would hope when upgrades come, even just to the radar responsiveness that It would be for FSD paying customers only for at least a while to differentiate the two more..