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I don't mean to redirect the discussion here but I do have a question sort of related. I know they keep changing how this is described on the website and I'd like to know exactly.

Currently what exactly is included in this $6k (soon-to-be $7k) FSD option?

More precisely I'd like to know what's not included. If I don't buy it, what am I getting besides the regular AP (Autosteer+TACC)?
Is the simple summon included in this base AP? If yes, what is it exactly capable of? Straight line forward and reverse, controlled from the app and optional keyfob? Anything else on this?
 
There's a grand canyon sized gap between "Car might reduce speed some places" and "Car driving 100% by itself you aren't at all required to pay attention to whatsoever suddenly stops driving by itself because it crossed a geo boundary"

In order to drive by itself, one presumes an entry must be made into the navigation system. So an interstate destination could easily nullify the trip for FSD. Not that hard....
 
Essentially every single person or company currently developing autonomous driving capabilities states that autonomous driving is not possible, currently, with cameras alone. Yes humans don't drive with lasers coming out of our eyes, but we humans also capture and process image data at exponentially higher levels than that of Tesla's cameras and FSD computer.
 
I don't mean to redirect the discussion here but I do have a question sort of related. I know they keep changing how this is described on the website and I'd like to know exactly.

Currently what exactly is included in this $6k (soon-to-be $7k) FSD option?

More precisely I'd like to know what's not included. If I don't buy it, what am I getting besides the regular AP (Autosteer+TACC)?
Is the simple summon included in this base AP? If yes, what is it exactly capable of? Straight line forward and reverse, controlled from the app and optional keyfob? Anything else on this?

AP includes only TACC+Autosteer. If you purchase FSD, right now it includes:
  1. Straight line summon
  2. Navigate on AP
  3. Auto-lane change
  4. Auto-park
In the future it will also include an upgrade to HW3 computer, enhanced summon, and city NOAP.
 
In order to drive by itself, one presumes an entry must be made into the navigation system. So an interstate destination could easily nullify the trip for FSD. Not that hard....

Except in many states it's not just "state" rules- it could be different rules by county or city as well.

It's pretty hard.

And why everyone, Tesla included, says they're not turning on anything higher than L2 until regulations get figured out that don't leave you with hundreds of possible sets of rules to deal with in a single country.
 
Except in many states it's not just "state" rules- it could be different rules by county or city as well.

It's pretty hard.

And why everyone, Tesla included, says they're not turning on anything higher than L2 until regulations get figured out that don't leave you with hundreds of possible sets of rules to deal with in a single country.

Yes, it is. But that's what Musk does, "Hard" things - between tokes of a joint or two (or three or four....)! :p SpaceX, Tesla, PayPal, etc. :)
 
Except in many states it's not just "state" rules- it could be different rules by county or city as well.

It's pretty hard.

And why everyone, Tesla included, says they're not turning on anything higher than L2 until regulations get figured out that don't leave you with hundreds of possible sets of rules to deal with in a single country.
Tesla is promising robotaxis by next year. There won't be national regulations by then. There is no reason they have to make FSD work everywhere. Navigate on autopilot already works differently in different jurisdictions.
 
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AP includes only TACC+Autosteer. If you purchase FSD, right now it includes:
  1. Straight line summon
  2. Navigate on AP
  3. Auto-lane change
  4. Auto-park
In the future it will also include an upgrade to HW3 computer, enhanced summon, and city NOAP.

But, if you think anyone can give you an absolute answer you're wrong and Tesla can change it at any time before and after it is actually delivered and you'll have no recourse to complain.
 
But, if you think anyone can give you an absolute answer you're wrong and Tesla can change it at any time before and after it is actually delivered and you'll have no recourse to complain.

Those are the current features of FSD. And the future ones are listed on the order page for FSD. Those will be the features. When they will be delivered is up for debate, but not whether they're coming at all.
 
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But, if you think anyone can give you an absolute answer you're wrong and Tesla can change it at any time before and after it is actually delivered and you'll have no recourse to complain.

I think they will. EAP used to be the best offering, and now it's FSD. The complaints lowered the price -- basically allowing one to split the differences in cost from the source to the target for those who had EAP.

So if FSD has a fixed cost today, and tomorrow there's FSD + WhirlyGigFeature, the difference would be whatever that feature costs alone. At least that's how I see it.

That's pretty much why I've assumed that Tesla is going to just break apart features and start offering them adhoc since it makes a lot more sense.
 
Tesla is promising robotaxis by next year. There won't be national regulations by then.


There won't need to be.

Nobody takes a taxi on a cross-country trip (or at least I sure hope they don't) or even usually across a single state border.

Taxis are vast majority driving in a single city or county.

In fact, that's exactly the way Elon put it-

Elon Musk said:
“I feel very confident predicting that there will be autonomous robotaxis from Tesla next year — not in all jurisdictions because we won’t have regulatory approval everywhere”



There is no reason they have to make FSD work everywhere. Navigate on autopilot already works differently in different jurisdictions.


AFAIK that's at a per-country level, not a per state (let alone county or city) one so apples and tomatoes again.

FSD for a local robotaxi is fine to just work locally.

FSD that turns features on/off as you travel beyond city limits for a personal vehicle you might go all over the place with is a different proposition.
 
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Wow, couldn’t possibly disagree more. We bought FSD on our first Model 3 and found it to be a complete waste of money so on our second Model 3 we skipped both AP and FSD and have absolutely no regrets at all. But driving the Model 3 is an absolute blast. It’s the most fun car I’ve ever driven, and driving 1,000 miles per month on $35 worth of electricity is by far my favorite thing about the car. And I love the simplicity of the interior personally, and that’s coming from a Lexus LS460.
I was driving an SL550 and feel exactly the same way about my M3, and FSD.
 
Nobody takes a taxi on a cross-country trip (or at least I sure hope they don't) or even usually across a single state border.
I feel like they can use the same technology for personal vehicles that they are going to use for robotaxis since there are plenty of cases where one would take a taxis across state lines.
It’s also possible to drive between countries. Luckily they can also use their robotaxi technology to geofence that as well.
 
Basically it comes down to this: Do the features of FSD interest you, will you be keeping the car for a few years, and can you afford it now? If 'Yes', then get it. You'll get all kinds of opinions of others, but it is for you to decide.
 
Test drove an M3 and MX at a service center in Pittsburgh. I’m happy with the abilities of the current Auto Pilot. We didn’t order the FSD because it feels like you need to baby sit the car. The feeling of NoA, auto lane shift,and self parking reminds me exactly when my daughter was learning how to drive. I don’t trust it. So why pay for something you can’t trust nor fully use yet ? The best time to purchase is when it’s perfected. Even if Tesla jacks up the price in the future, you maybe able to tax deduct it especially if you are joining the Robotaxi fleet as a business expense? There’s also a chance of lowering the price because competition may not be too far behind.
 
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Basically it comes down to this: Do the features of FSD interest you, will you be keeping the car for a few years, and can you afford it now? If 'Yes', then get it. You'll get all kinds of opinions of others, but it is for you to decide.

What he said!

I'm an Applications Programmer (geek) and enjoy it throughly. New technologies fascinate me. Got my Model 3, AWD Long Range in June 2019, and FSD was a must. But that's me. FSD parking ability is far superior to my own. For "me", I almost feel like that's worth the price of admission. I mean, it parks itself dead center and perfectly single every time. I'd like to see the code that does it. But in general, it's like a big old birthday gift every time a new update appears.

Do what feels right. Cheers!
 
Yep - it's a very personal choice, plus the value of money vs. the value of features is different for all of us.

Here is my perspective,

Basic autopilot - is sweet

Now for FSD features that I like -->
Turn signal to lane change - I understand is no longer part of basic autopilot and needs FSD, and this to me was very useful in my S. Not 6K useful, but useful.
NoA - is good, but I am sure they'll improve it. You do have to baby sit the car, but it still takes some stress off.
Recognizing stop signs and red lights on inside streets - if there is one thing that I had to pick apart on my S, this was it. I found it super annoying that AP would not recognize red lights and stop signs, but - FSD will include it.

FSD features that I don't care for -->
Summon and Enhanced summon - too slow to be useful in the real world, I don't think you'll get much utility out of it.
Self park - too slow to be useful in the real world, wherever you need to || park, you also have an impatient idiot behind you being stupid. And nose-in park, to be honest, I never trusted it.

Wild card -->
Tesla may roll out the top down 360 view, and this would be useful. Unclear if this will need FSD or if it'll ever roll out.

So 6K for
- Turn signal lane change, NoA, recognizing stop signs and red lights.

One more consideration, that $6K won't add enough resale-value to your car. And I don't think Tesla will raise FSD prices to astronomical levels either way. The market decides the price. Also don't forget, once the Model Y rolls out, it's hatchback utility will almost certainly depreciate Model 3.
 
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Yep - it's a very personal choice, plus the value of money vs. the value of features is different for all of us.

Here is my perspective,

Basic autopilot - is sweet

Now for FSD features that I like -->
Turn signal to lane change - I understand is no longer part of basic autopilot and needs FSD, and this to me was very useful in my S. Not 6K useful, but useful.
NoA - is good, but I am sure they'll improve it. You do have to baby sit the car, but it still takes some stress off.
Recognizing stop signs and red lights on inside streets - if there is one thing that I had to pick apart on my S, this was it. I found it super annoying that AP would not recognize red lights and stop signs, but - FSD will include it.

FSD features that I don't care for -->
Summon and Enhanced summon - too slow to be useful in the real world, I don't think you'll get much utility out of it.
Self park - too slow to be useful in the real world, wherever you need to || park, you also have an impatient idiot behind you being stupid. And nose-in park, to be honest, I never trusted it.

Wild card -->
Tesla may roll out the top down 360 view, and this would be useful. Unclear if this will need FSD or if it'll ever roll out.

So 6K for
- Turn signal lane change, NoA, recognizing stop signs and red lights.

One more consideration, that $6K won't add enough resale-value to your car. And I don't think Tesla will raise FSD prices to astronomical levels either way. The market decides the price. Also don't forget, once the Model Y rolls out, it's hatchback utility will almost certainly depreciate Model 3.

Note: Stoplight and Stop signs are still a "promise" and not yet available. Same with the Enhanced Summons gimmick. Yes, I wasted $6000.