FUD threads in TMC?

[Dan Detweiler]

Not calling anyone out or trying insight a riot or anything but it seems there has been a marked upswing in threads being started for no other apparent reason than to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) among the members here.

Since the announcement of the 35K Model 3 I have seen at least 4 or 5 per day popping up. A concerted effort to slow the positive impact through passive aggressive suggestion? Seems a bit fishy to me. And before people start throwing names around like fan oy and others, I have no problem discussing alternate views. These just seem to be more in line with an agenda.

Dan

 

[u00mem9]

It’s a natural result from an outlook that has suddenly become very cloudy. Most of the current turmoil was created directly by Tesla’s actions which seem increasingly desperate. Even the biggest fans are starting to get a little nervous.

Personally, I have years of warranty coverage left, and am concerned that if it suddenly evaporates, I will probably have to find another car.. off-warranty repair of the drive unit or battery is too great a risk to overlook.

Don’t be in denial about this situation. The forum isn’t a safe space where we should encourage a coverup of the health and viability of the company.

 

[GeoX750]

It’s a natural result from an outlook that has suddenly become very cloudy. Most of the current turmoil was created directly by Tesla’s actions which seem increasingly desperate. Even the biggest fans are starting to get a little nervous.

Personally, I have years of warranty coverage left, and am concerned that if it suddenly evaporates, I will probably have to find another car.. off-warranty repair of the drive unit or battery is too great a risk to overlook.

Don’t be in denial about this situation. The forum isn’t a safe space where we should encourage a coverup of the health and viability of the company.

Exactly, if you think its FUD, you are living in denial of the facts of massive price drops to S/X, multiple employee layoffs, store closings, and demand drop off.

I am hoping the $35K model, China and Europe and then Model Y and pickup bring things back in line, but you cannot deny facts.

 

[arcus]

Welcome to the age of instant access to information. The more "signs" you see that there's trouble brewing, the easier it is to get unsettled, even for the seasoned supporters. Some start to second-guess their own decisions. Panic even.

For what it's worth, I knew what I've got when I bought my car and I happily paid what I could afford to get it. It does not diminish the value the car brings to ME or takes away from the joy of having it. Since I didn't buy the car to trade for latest greatest soon, but to keep it for as long as I can, I bought FSD too. I knew that this was a "promise of a future" and am not getting butt hurt over the fact that I am not getting what I paid for just yet. Nobody put a gun to my head forcing me to add that feature then, it was my own choice. Each to their own.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

It’s a natural result from an outlook that has suddenly become very cloudy. Most of the current turmoil was created directly by Tesla’s actions which seem increasingly desperate. Even the biggest fans are starting to get a little nervous.

Personally, I have years of warranty coverage left, and am concerned that if it suddenly evaporates, I will probably have to find another car.. off-warranty repair of the drive unit or battery is too great a risk to overlook.

Don’t be in denial about this situation. The forum isn’t a safe space where we should encourage a coverup of the health and viability of the company.

I am certainly not in denial. Every decision they have made in the last couple of weeks can easily be explained as a positive corporate move to strengthen the company. Yes, the layoffs are tough to swallow but in the long run will probably benefit the company...especially in the case of a recession. I don't see the outlook as cloudy at all. The desperation I have seen is purely from those that would benefit from Tesla's failure.

Dan

 

[ewoodrick]

Exactly, if you think its FUD, you are living in denial of the facts of massive price drops to S/X, multiple employee layoffs, store closings, and demand drop off.

I am hoping the $35K model, China and Europe and then Model Y and pickup bring things back in line, but you cannot deny facts.

Price drops are generally considered good. That's a product's manufacturing maturing.
Round 1 layoffs earlier this year was normal corporate cleanup. The recent store closing was simple realignment and moving back to core concepts.
Demand drop off is BS. There was a huge push at the end of year, only the blind would not have seen it coming. But Tesla already had plans to combat it with overseas sales as well as base model. And lowering prices just is icing on the cake

I tend to think that they have been taking the exact right path. Sure, if I were to buy a car today, as opposed to when I got it a year ago, I wouldn't spend as much money. But no matter what, I'd do the same thing again.

 

[turtlesz]

I think the recent changes are a bit too erratic for comfort. Announcing layoffs + dropping prices across the board on every model is not a good way to introduce a much awaited 35k model. Polarizing existing buyers particularly a subset of the core early adopters can't be a good move either since Tesla requires word of mouth promotion. It's understandable people are hesitant about the future of Tesla. I thought Tesla needed to keep profit margins healthy to advance the company and build out the supercharger network but why kill their margins now? Seems like weaker demand and reducing costs is a way to spur sales.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

I think the recent changes are a bit too erratic for comfort. Announcing layoffs + dropping prices across the board on every model is not a good way to introduce a much awaited 35k model. Polarizing existing buyers particularly a subset of the core early adopters can't be a good move either since Tesla requires word of mouth promotion. It's understandable people are hesitant about the future of Tesla. I thought Tesla needed to keep profit margins healthy to advance the company and build out the supercharger network but why kill their margins now? Seems like weaker demand and reducing costs is a way to spur sales.

I don't get where you see weaker demand.

Dan

 

[turtlesz]

I don't get where you see weaker demand.

Dan

Why did they have 3 price cuts in the past few months for the Model 3 for 6k off or $40k off the P100D models? If they were flying off shelves they wouldn't have made cuts that drastically. I don't buy they are trying to pass on the savings to consumers, the stronger narrative is they need cash now or it will get ugly. Tesla service isn't great and appointments are delayed, and they need money to improve the supercharger network. If demand was high and they were milking money why not take care of their employees and do a gradual closing of stores but still let them stay employed for months instead of cutting their pay in half and forcing out? Demand is not there at current prices for upper trims so they had to cut in order to move cars off lot.

 

[u00mem9]

I don't get where you see weaker demand.

Dan

https://electrek.co/2019/03/08/tesla-freezes-store-closure-layoffs-chaotic-sales-strategy/

Nevermind, you guys are right. Running like a well-oiled machine! Lol

 

[Unpilot]

https://electrek.co/2019/03/08/tesla-freezes-store-closure-layoffs-chaotic-sales-strategy/

Nevermind, you guys are right. Running like a well-oiled machine! Lol

Unfortunately that web site has become a click bait driven mess IMHO.

IF there was a demand problem would banks provide funding like they have in the last few days.
These banks do a lot more due diligence than any one here can or would do.

Not understanding disruptive company's will cause some heart burn. I just bought more stock....let's check back in a few years to see if that was a smart idea.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Why did they have 3 price cuts in the past few months for the Model 3 for 6k off or $40k off the P100D models? If they were flying off shelves they wouldn't have made cuts that drastically. I don't buy they are trying to pass on the savings to consumers, the stronger narrative is they need cash now or it will get ugly. Tesla service isn't great and appointments are delayed, and they need money to improve the supercharger network. If demand was high and they were milking money why not take care of their employees and do a gradual closing of stores but still let them stay employed for months instead of cutting their pay in half and forcing out? Demand is not there at current prices for upper trims so they had to cut in order to move cars off lot.

What is the company's mission statement?

Dan

 

[GeoX750]

What is the company's mission statement?

Dan

Staying in business is always Job 1. Otherwise, no mission statement can be accomplished.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Staying in business is always Job 1. Otherwise, no mission statement can be accomplished.

Trading price for volume.

Dan

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Bring the Truck... you'll sell me two, that will make my 4th and 5th Tesla purchases and then we will be a whole house Tesla fleet.

No guts, no glory, you new pansies should have been around when many of us bought in 2012/2013. Young whippersnappers dont know what it was like in the old days, back in the dark days before superchargers, back when you had to carry a ball of adapters and 100 feet of heavy power cord, back when you ordered the car without seeing it. Back when you drove in an ice storm and watched your range plummet and you didn't know where your next electric meal was coming from and it was uphill in both directions. We liked it!, We loved it!

Today it's easy, the price is lower and the quality higher, and you can get one for $35K, not the $127K we paid just 7 short years ago. You dont know how good you have it and your bitching about it. Damn whippersnappers.

Weekend Update Segment - Dana Carvey as Grumpy Old Man

 

[Dutchie]

I totally agree. A lot of people starting to saw misinformation out there like:

"Model X/S cannot charge on V3 Supercharger at 250 kW". Fact is that we don't know for certain. It probably can't but nobody knows for certain.

"Cars with HW2.0 cannot upgrade to FSD because they use different radar, cameras etc than cars with hardware 2.5."

Fact is there is no different radar or camera in HW 2.5. Just another computer with redundant wiring

https://electrek.co/2017/08/09/tesla-autopilot-2-5-hardware-computer-autonomous-driving/

People just start saying somethings without sources and people keep repeating it as being a certainty. When asking for a source of their perceived knowledge you don't hear anything.

The quality of this forum is going downhill rapidly!

 

[more863-also]

If you believe Tesla is a for profit, capitalist company, you should understand that sudden and repeated price drops do not maximize profit unless there's a belief that demand is limited at a given price point. Apple doesn't randomly drop prices in the middle of a product cycle.

 

[S'toon]

If you believe Tesla is a for profit, capitalist company, you should understand that sudden and repeated price drops do not maximize profit unless there's a belief that demand is limited at a given price point. Apple doesn't randomly drop prices in the middle of a product cycle.

Tesla doesn't have product cycles.

 

[u00mem9]

Bring the Truck... you'll sell me two, that will make my 4th and 5th Tesla purchases and then we will be a whole house Tesla fleet.

No guts, no glory, you new pansies should have been around when many of us bought in 2012/2013. Young whippersnappers dont know what it was like in the old days, back in the dark days before superchargers, back when you had to carry a ball of adapters and 100 feet of heavy power cord, back when you ordered the car without seeing it. Back when you drove in an ice storm and watched your range plummet and you didn't know where your next electric meal was coming from and it was uphill in both directions. We liked it!, We loved it!

Today it's easy, the price is lower and the quality higher, and you can get one for $35K, not the $127K we paid just 7 short years ago. You dont know how good you have it and your bitching about it. Damn whippersnappers.

Weekend Update Segment - Dana Carvey as Grumpy Old Man

I hear that, but I don’t think anyone here is questioning the product.

You don’t get to spend OPM forever...at some point, you either sustain yourself, or you are politely asked to stop.

Elon talked a lot of smack when Model 3 production was being planned. Everyone in the automotive world was an idiot...it was going to be so automated that it would be unsafe for humans to be in the factory. (that ended up being half true anyway). Ultimately they failed on all those goals. They make their vehicle less efficiently than the existing makers...instead of 2 orders of magnitude more efficient as claimed (laughable naïveté). They don’t produce their own battery cells or PV cells, contracting with Panasonic for both. All these failures to achieve the goals are the reason they can’t make money at $35k. Sorry, but that’s the reality.

Dropping the price and closing the stores is not some brilliant new strategy, it’s a decision forced by low demand and a need to keep the cash coming. A traditional OEM can push inventory into the dealer network by financial coercion. When you own(ed) the stores, that flexibility is gone.

If I had to bet, I think it’s over for the Musk era. But someone will buy the company...and hopefully keep the thing going. The reality is probably a giant pause is coming to the EV roll at other OEMs when they find out it’s a niche market with limited profit potential and a crowded field. Hope I’m wrong, but that’s what I expect.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Maybe they appease the $35K until orders are filled, then drop that model. Not sure why they are pushing in that direction, Trucks and SUV's are the market in the USA. In Europe its the Salon or Wagon THAT CAN TOW.... a junior level marketing associate could tell you that.

I agree that they may have bitten off more than they can chew in the auto production market, once that's moved to China they will reduce prices again.