Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Fuel Tax Discussion

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Washington State did the same thing. There still is a sales tax holiday on cheaper EVs (below $42K), but they not only started an EV tax, but they raised it this last year. What is very unfair IMO is that pure EVs get taxed, but hybrids don't.
Do you remember how they did got the registration surcharge approved? They had people vote on a $10 surcharge for EV's. I remember commenting to my wife how that's just a "foot in the door, before they swing their a** in" . Once voted in, the next year it went to to $100, now it's $150 or more. That is why, as a principle, I vote no to ANY new taxes unless the measure states that an increase of said new tax requires voter approval - then I consider the merit of the tax, otherwise I don't care how worthy the cause is, it's just a way for government to give themselves more money at will. And if you ever think, "they need to have some leeway to adjust it", consider this - this particular new tax went up 1500% in 3-4 years, so either they are completely incompetent at estimating what is needed, or they are just trying to get one by the voters. Maybe both.

Personally I don't have a problem with the idea of recouping gas taxes for roads maintenance, however how they did it is just wrong, and makes me think whether the money really does go to the roads or just to some generic fund for bonuses or other special projects.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Chopr147
Do you remember how they did got the registration surcharge approved? They had people vote on a $10 surcharge for EV's. I remember commenting to my wife how that's just a "foot in the door, before they swing their a** in" . Once voted in, the next year it went to to $100, now it's $150 or more. That is why, as a principle, I vote no to ANY new taxes unless the measure states that an increase of said new tax requires voter approval - then I consider the merit of the tax, otherwise I don't care how worthy the cause is, it's just a way for government to give themselves more money at will. And if you ever think, "they need to have some leeway to adjust it", consider this - this particular new tax went up 1500% in 3-4 years, so either they are completely incompetent at estimating what is needed, or they are just trying to get one by the voters. Maybe both.

Personally I don't have a problem with the idea of recouping gas taxes for roads maintenance, however how they did it is just wrong, and makes me think whether the money really does go to the roads or just to some generic fund for bonuses or other special projects.

I believe the Washington gas tax goes into the general fund. For most drivers, the gas tax on an ICE per year is going to be less than the $150 surcharge they are leveling on EV owners. They claim they need to get the money for upkeep of the roads from somewhere, but I doubt I do $150 of damage to the roads every year. Now semis on the other hand do a lot of damage to the roads. If they really wanted everyone to pay their fair share, they should up the tax on diesel, but that would be considered anti-business.
 
I believe the Washington gas tax goes into the general fund. For most drivers, the gas tax on an ICE per year is going to be less than the $150 surcharge they are leveling on EV owners. They claim they need to get the money for upkeep of the roads from somewhere, but I doubt I do $150 of damage to the roads every year. Now semis on the other hand do a lot of damage to the roads. If they really wanted everyone to pay their fair share, they should up the tax on diesel, but that would be considered anti-business.
first off the taxes on diesel are already higher than the taxes levied on gasoline.
you probably aren't aware that those semis already pay many thousands in road use taxes, and those fees and taxes a passed on to the consumer. so one way or another you and everyone else is paying the road use taxes.
FYI
Truck Taxes and Revenue
 
Last edited:
first off the taxes on diesel are already higher than the taxes levied on gasoline.
you probably aren't aware that those semis already pay many thousands in road use taxes, and those fees and taxes a passed on to the consumer. so one way or another you and everyone else is paying the road use taxes.
FYI
Truck Taxes and Revenue

Unfortunately, they cause far more damage to roads then their taxes pay for.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dhrivnak
like I noted, you can raise the taxes/fees on those trucks as high as you care to, those taxes and fees will just be passed through to the end user, you, me and everyone else. so at the end of the day you are paying regardless of how the money is collected.
That's true, but collecting from the actual source of the damage makes the real subsidizing cost, in this case truck freight, clear to everyone rather than being hidden. The likely result of having the heavy trucks pay for all the road damage they cause would shift freight to rail. This would lower road maintenance and reduce road congestion. Not that it would happen instantly, but it would be a good long term trend.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: dhrivnak
That's true, but collecting from the actual source of the damage makes the real subsidizing cost, in this case truck freight, clear to everyone rather than being hidden. The likely result of having the heavy trucks pay for all the road damage they cause would shift freight to rail. This would lower road maintenance and reduce road congestion. Not that it would happen instantly, but it would be a good long term trend.
I think that you're missing the point about how those firms that move freight don't really pay the taxes assessed on them they just pass it through via increased charges to the shippers who then just increase prices to the consumers. using the rails are great for long haul shipping, they aren't very good for "the last mile"
 
I think that you're missing the point about how those firms that move freight don't really pay the taxes assessed on them they just pass it through via increased charges to the shippers who then just increase prices to the consumers. using the rails are great for long haul shipping, they aren't very good for "the last mile"
Agreed, but there is a lot of non-last mile freight that goes by truck which could go by rail.
 
I think that you're missing the point about how those firms that move freight don't really pay the taxes assessed on them they just pass it through via increased charges to the shippers who then just increase prices to the consumers. using the rails are great for long haul shipping, they aren't very good for "the last mile"
I agree that higher taxes levied on the shippers will increase the cost of goods. However, assigning externalities to the behavior makes for more transparent and functional economics. It incentivizes efficiency in ways that may be economically unimportant prior to their assignment. It also encourages competitive products (in this case, shipping methods) to arrive at market.

I feel that tying a product or behavior's externalities to that product or behavior is the best way for our economic model to aid in proper decision making.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dhrivnak
Agreed, but there is a lot of non-last mile freight that goes by truck which could go by rail.

A lot of the long haul freight that is going by truck is on trucks because the rail network is maxed out. In the late 70s the US rail companies were going bankrupt, but first the Japanese, then other Asian shippers discovered that it was much cheaper and faster to ship containers to Europe by shipping them to the US west coast, transfer them to train, ship them across the US by train, and finally put them back on ships on the US east coast. It saved the US rail companies, but it can contributed to maxing out the US rail network.

Unless a shipment is booked months in advance, there usually isn't room on trains for more freight, so it goes onto trucks. A number of abandoned lines have been re-opened in the last 20 years, but the network can't be expanded any more without building new right of way and they probably isn't going to happen.
 
Errata:

The "hybrid" Chevy Volt pays the WA EV tax.

Most roads are not used by Class 8 trucks (semis). Far less than 10%, probably less than 1%. All roads require maintenance.

Often landscaping, signage, and streetlights are part of the roads budget.

Roads decay from many methods. Expansion, usage, non-usage, ground shift, underground water, above ground water, construction repairs, etc.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: houstonian
Roads decay from many methods. Expansion, usage, non-usage, ground shift, underground water, above ground water, construction repairs, etc.
So true. Which is why attribution is paramount. Without it, finger pointing and blame sharing becomes the norm. But when you find that one particular activity causes the majority, action can be taken.

@henderrj - my deepest apologies. I'll self-report our posts to the local mod and try to get them moved to their own thread.