Full self driving confusion

[UPStrucker]

Can somebody help clear this up for me? I bought a performance model 3 in December 2018. I was under the impression that I bought a full self driving model. I checked every box and have basically every bell and whistle. Then Elon musk said that every car being built after March or April of some date, had a new computer in there that enabled full self driving. Do I need to get that computer to enable to FSD when it’s released? Is it going to cost me money?

I’m sorry if this is a dumb question.

 

[Knightshade]

Can somebody help clear this up for me? I bought a performance model 3 in December 2018. I was under the impression that I bought a full self driving model. I checked every box and have basically every bell and whistle. Then Elon musk said that every car being built after March or April of some date, had a new computer in there that enabled full self driving. Do I need to get that computer to enable to FSD when it’s released?

Yes

Is it going to cost me money?

No

 

[ewoodrick]

You bought a car that was capable of FSD. It got some FSD functionality like lane changes this year. More to come.

Also, you got a promise from Elon that indicated that all Model 3s with FSD, but the original computer will be upgraded to the new computer.
Elon has indicated that the new computer roll-outs won't start until near when FSD features need them. They don't need, nor can use them today.

If you have FSD, don't worry. If you don't have FSD, no need to worry either.

 

[edigest]

If you purchased the vehicle in Dec, 2018 and checked all the boxes, you paid $5000 for Enhanced Autopilot. You almost certainly have HW 2.5.

You have a subset of FSD features under the old EAP and will have to upgrade for the entire FSD feature set. The cost seems to be variable but it is currently $3000 to plus up EAP, I believe. You will need the HW 3 computer which was not included in M3s until a few months after your build.

 

[raptor5244]

If you purchased the vehicle in Dec, 2018 and checked all the boxes, you paid $5000 for Enhanced Autopilot. You almost certainly have HW 2.5.

You have a subset of FSD features under the old EAP and will have to upgrade for the entire FSD feature set. The cost seems to be variable but it is currently $3000 to plus up EAP, I believe. You will need the HW 3 computer which was not included in M3s until a few months after your build.

It is a shame that early adopters are still charged $3k for FSD, in addition to the $5k already spent on EAP. That is $8k on top of the higher prices paid for the car itself a year ago. Seems excessive for something that does not even work yet. I wonder how much the market will actually wind up paying for FSD. From my perspective, it is not worth it until it can drive the car as good or better than I can. On the highway, it does pretty good job as a drivers aid and can help reduce some driving fatigue. However, FSD is about city driving and there is a lot more they need to teach the car to do. I just can’t see this car reliably driving around a crowded parking lot on its own any time soon.

 

[Knightshade]

It is a shame that early adopters are still charged $3k for FSD, in addition to the $5k already spent on EAP. That is $8k

Which is the same amount people are paying now for new cars.

They made AP "standard" but raised the price 2k... and then charge you 6k for FSD. That's 8k. Not seeing the problem.

 

[edigest]

Seems excessive for something that does not even work yet. I wonder how much the market will actually wind up paying for FSD.

That's the $64.000 question. Or, maybe, just a $3000 question. If someone is leery about paying for future capability, that is perfectly defensible. Just wait until FSD is a mature product and buy or not based on your perception of the value.

There is risk on both sides. The product may never live up to expectations. On the other hand, FSD may price out higher than it is now due to increased value of the car as a robotaxi.

 

[d21mike]

Recently Elon said they were raising the price of FSD $1000 on Aug 16, 2019. If that happens then the $6000 will be $7000 at time of purchase. And v10 is due out around the same time with more FSD features.

I just got a Model 3 a few days ago with FSD for $6000. FSD already has more features the just AP so I did not pay for nothing like I did for my 2017 Model S.

 

[raptor5244]

Which is the same amount people are paying now for new cars.

They made AP "standard" but raised the price 2k... and then charge you 6k for FSD. That's 8k. Not seeing the problem.

Maybe I am missing something along the EAP>AP>AP+FSD>EAP+FSD journey. What features does FSD have the are not in EAP?

 

[raptor5244]

There is risk on both sides. The product may never live up to expectations. On the other hand, FSD may price out higher than it is now due to increased value of the car as a robotaxi.

I hear you but this robo-taxi stuff is crazy. Even if the the technology and software were fully ready then you still have to have to get folks to turn their $40k+ personal cars into taxi-cabs. I mean I get why Tesla likes this idea since they would get a cut of the ride sharing profit and sell more vehicles but what about the large percentage of folks that are not interested in buying a taxi cab? I mean that is basically what they are saying. You better buy a Tesla and FSD now before we turn all our vehicles into taxis and raise prices significantly. The competition would love that. They would just produce and sell EVs for people that want to drive their own cars for a fraction of the price. Think about when Toyota and Honda EVs for $20k are everywhere and get 400-500 miles per charge. Our 5 year old Tesla Model 3s will be long in the tooth and probably require a bunch of hardware upgrades if that is even possible.

So, let's fast forward and say they actually get FSD working acceptably. Now you have to get the general public to accept riding in an autonomous car. What happens if there is a passenger emergency? How do they signal to stop the car and let them out if need be? One mishap and folks will not trust the technology. The challenges are much broader than just achieving autonomous driving and they will take much longer to solve.

 

[d21mike]

Maybe I am missing something along the EAP>AP>AP+FSD>EAP+FSD journey. What features does FSD have the are not in EAP?

FSD does not have 1 feature not part of EAP. However, FSD has several features not available in the New AP. Example. NOA and Auto Lane Change. And soon to be Stop/Stop Light detection.

 

[raptor5244]

FSD does not have 1 feature not part of EAP. However, FSD has several features not available in the New AP. Example. NOA and Auto Lane Change. And soon to be Stop/Stop Light detection.

That's too bad since Auto Lane Change is probably the most desirable feature and NOA is right behind. So, $3k for EAP owners to get those features and $6k for AP owners? Seems like a lot of money for something that is 2nd nature while driving. Maybe if you do a lot of highway driving...

 

[d21mike]

That's too bad since Auto Lane Change is probably the most desirable feature and NOA is right behind. So, $3k for EAP owners to get those features and $6k for AP owners? Seems like a lot of money for something that is 2nd nature while driving. Maybe if you do a lot of highway driving...

No. EAP Owners already have those features as I said. There is nothing in current FSD that EAP does not already have. The New AP drop those features along with dropping E from the name.

 

[Knightshade]

That's too bad since Auto Lane Change is probably the most desirable feature and NOA is right behind. So, $3k for EAP owners to get those features and $6k for AP owners? Seems like a lot of money for something that is 2nd nature while driving. Maybe if you do a lot of highway driving...

There's sort of 4 different products:


"new" AP since March- was 2 or 3k, now "free" but they raised the price on all the cars when they made it free. Gives you TACC and SINGLE LANE autosteer. That's it.

EAP- Every current drivers aid feature available including NoA, lane change, autopark, regular summon, etc... (plus enhanced summon when it's out). Was 5k pre-purchase prior to it no longer being sold.

FSD(a)- This is $3000 and for EAP owners. It adds nothing functional currently- but will contain all new features coming beyond enhanced summon, plus free HW3 upgrade.

FSD(b)- This is $6000 for "new" AP owners. It adds everything currently in EAP that isn't in "new" AP (autopark, lane change, Nav on AP, summon (either kind), etc.... Plus everything in FSD(a) as well (future features plus free HW3 upgrade)



Arguably there's also a split into 2 groups for FSD(a) I'd describe as:

FSD(a1)- EAP owners buying FSD today, when the only specific promised future features are redlight/stop sign detection, and nav on local roads.

FSD(a2)- EAP owners who bought FSD prior to them changing the description several months ago. These folks were flat out promised level 5 "car will drive across the country and pick you up" driving features....and would be the only ones with a valid argument to insist on a refund or "free" HW upgrade to get to those features if Tesla decides the current sensor suite can't get them there.

 

[Glamisduner]

That's too bad since Auto Lane Change is probably the most desirable feature and NOA is right behind. So, $3k for EAP owners to get those features and $6k for AP owners? Seems like a lot of money for something that is 2nd nature while driving. Maybe if you do a lot of highway driving...

EAP already has those two features. There are currently no features in FSD that EAP does not have. Enhanced Summon is coming, and that too is an EAP feature at which point eap will be feature complete.

FSD is stoplight and stopsign recognition. The robo taxi thing is a joke IMO, by the time that is a reality I will no longer have this car. perhaps FSD will eventually unlock the steeringwheel nag, but who knows. I only purchased so I could get the FSD computer and more updates. H265 encoding is superior, I wonder if AP will function better when the full camera resolutions are unlocked on the new hardware.

AP is missing the auto park, auto lane change and noa, and I think summon.

 

[N5329K]

I’m waiting for the one that flies.
Robin

 

[raptor5244]

EAP already has those two features. There are currently no features in FSD that EAP does not have. Enhanced Summon is coming, and that too is an EAP feature at which point eap will be feature complete.

FSD is stoplight and stopsign recognition. The robo taxi thing is a joke IMO, by the time that is a reality I will no longer have this car. perhaps FSD will eventually unlock the steeringwheel nag, but who knows. I only purchased so I could get the FSD computer and more updates. H265 encoding is superior, I wonder if AP will function better when the full camera resolutions are unlocked on the new hardware.

AP is missing the auto park, auto lane change and noa, and I think summon.

I have HW3 on my car but curious when the software will take advantage of it, even standard AP. It is pretty good on the highway. I realize it is technically not ready for city driving but it sure seems like it has a long way to go. It brakes way too late, has trouble seeing traffic with a bend in the road, over-reacts to cars making turns in front of you and lacks overall smoothness. My passengers make me turn it off because it annoys them and I worry that cars behind me will crash into me if the AP suddenly overreacts with its phantom braking.

As for the steering wheel nag, for some reason our SR+ never nags. Not sure if the sensor is not plugged in, missing hardware, busted, etc. Kind of nice but makes you wonder about build quality and I get no error or warning messages. My M3P+ nags me though...

 

[Knightshade]

I have HW3 on my car but curious when the software will take advantage of it, even standard AP.

Standard AP doesn't require HW3 at all, so probably never?

It is pretty good on the highway. I realize it is technically not ready for city driving but it sure seems like it has a long way to go. .... over-reacts to cars making turns in front of you

It's weird- you admit you know it's not intended for city driving- then complain when it doesn't do well in city driving.

The car isn't programmed to react ever to cars turning in front of you- because as it exists now you're never supposed to put it in that situation.

So nothing it does in that situation can be wrong, only the person putting it there is wrong.


Likewise virtually nothing about how it behaves now "in the city" tells you anything useful about how well it'll work in the city once it's actually programmed to work there

 

[raptor5244]

Standard AP doesn't require HW3 at all, so probably never?





It's weird- you admit you know it's not intended for city driving- then complain when it doesn't do well in city driving.

The car isn't programmed to react ever to cars turning in front of you- because as it exists now you're never supposed to put it in that situation.

So nothing it does in that situation can be wrong, only the person putting it there is wrong.


Likewise virtually nothing about how it behaves now "in the city" tells you anything useful about how well it'll work in the city once it's actually programmed to work there

Looking forward to see it working.

 

[jelarv]

I’m among those in the “confused” camp about FSD. My Model 3 has had the summon mode, auto lane change etc. for at least six months. In calling the service center to fix a problem with the car, they recommended rather than have mobile service come to my house I should bring it into the service center in order to “upgrade to FSD which you’re scheduled to receive” which sounds like a nice thing, bur given that it takes at least half a day to get in/out of a service center, I’m not sure why I would go to the trouble.