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Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
+42! Amen, and amen. The Ultimate Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything about "How Hypocritical Can Gearheads Be When It Comes to Moving the Goalposts of Performance for EVs?"
Darryl
ModelXTracker.com Co-Adm
I agree with those who say $80 - $90k. I have done the analysis compared to the Model X and Model S and taking into consideration that the Model 3 will start at about half of a base Model S.
With a price range of $35k to $90k there will be a car for those who only can afford a $35k car but also a car for those who want/can afford more. The $35k will be a good alternative for those looking for a base level luxury car. I am sure that everything will be an option on the 3. This will be the only way they can sell it for $35k.
With a price range of $35k to $90k there will be a car for those who only can afford a $35k car but also a car for those who want/can afford more. The $35k will be a good alternative for those looking for a base level luxury car. I am sure that everything will be an option on the 3. This will be the only way they can sell it for $35k.
With some cars $85-90k, and a whole ocean of option between that and the $35k base version...how are they ever going to end up at the expected $42k average purchase price?
Perhaps 42k will be what MOST people pay. Say, for the small battery, no range upgrade, AP and a few minor luxury options. No SC, or pay-per-Joule. But IF there is a $85k+ version, I don't see the average purchase price end up there.
If $42k were to be true, the fully loaded car may actually be closer to $60k. Which would be awesome. Just, the ones looking to show offf they fully loaded car will get to feel less special as more people will be able to afford it.
Perhaps 42k will be what MOST people pay. Say, for the small battery, no range upgrade, AP and a few minor luxury options. No SC, or pay-per-Joule. But IF there is a $85k+ version, I don't see the average purchase price end up there.
If $42k were to be true, the fully loaded car may actually be closer to $60k. Which would be awesome. Just, the ones looking to show offf they fully loaded car will get to feel less special as more people will be able to afford it.
I really hope your wrong. 80-90k just sounds crazy for a midsize performance sedan. When I reserved this car I was thinking double the starting price at the most at 70k which is still a lot of money for this size of car. It would be nice for the little guy in this world to have something just as fast and luxurious as the rich and famous parade around in for once. I agree that 80-90k for a PXXDL Model 3 is a possability
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
If they can offer a car that does 0-60 in ~3s for ~$80k... that's incredibly compelling... offering one that will do 0-60 in <2.5s for $10k more wouldn't make it any less compelling.
A PXXDL would be a peer of the BMW M3... which can also run up near ~$90k fully loaded. And I'm betting that the Tesla will be a bit faster... probably more than a bit
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Which is why it will be so incredibly awesome that the Model ☰ P100D is anywhere from $15,000 to $25,000 less expensive than a BMW M3 in maximum trim.If they can offer a car that does 0-60 in ~3s for ~$80k... that's incredibly compelling... offering one that will do 0-60 in <2.5s for $10k more wouldn't make it any less compelling.
A PXXDL would be a peer of the BMW M3... which can also run up near ~$90k fully loaded. And I'm betting that the Tesla will be a bit faster... probably more than a bit
Can someone educate me please?
How does a car that is, say, half a meter longer and 2-3 inches wider somehow worth $60k or $80k more?
How does a car that is, say, half a meter longer and 2-3 inches wider somehow worth $60k or $80k more?
- Slightly larger chassis
- Slightly longer cabeling
- More window surface
- More roofing
- Slighly larger wheels, if at all
- Slightly bigger or more numberous seats.
- Slightly bigger dashboard.
- 17" over 15" touch screen
My guess is:
- Bigger battery
- Faster acceleration
One reason is cost. The MS wasn't designed for ease of manufacturing so it costs more to build. And some of the premium is just plain old exclusivity. Why tool around in a car that millions (M≡ eventually) drive when you can turn heads with one that only thousands can afford. Why would Tesla even bother making the MS you might ask? The whole purpose was to pay for the mass appeal M≡ design and production. They aren't concerned about eating away at MS sales with the M≡ and I'd argue that it probably won't anyway.
Probably the largest cost saving with the M3 will be the LACK of the all aluminum MS structure which Tesla says is very expensive and a complex assembly procedure replaced by a steel and aluminum assembly and a much faster and less complex assembly procedure.
I don't really understand why aluminum is more expensive. Do they use do much of it? Is it so much more difficult to form?
Anyway, it was offered above in general, that a smaller car is not worth as much as Model S. While the actual dimensions will be marginally smaller, really. I am aware of the production scale. Perhaps one day Model S and X will benefit of the same and drop 30% in price?
Anyway, it was offered above in general, that a smaller car is not worth as much as Model S. While the actual dimensions will be marginally smaller, really. I am aware of the production scale. Perhaps one day Model S and X will benefit of the same and drop 30% in price?
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
It's more expensive per lb. It's harder to form and harder to weld. Steel is far cheaper and easier to work with.
Garlan Garner
Banned
The aluminum isn't that much more expensive.
Remember the MS is still funding the M≡. The MS wouldn't be as expensive if it wasn't funding the M≡.
Elon continues to thank those who have purchased the MS for the specific purpose of funding the M≡. Now the secret question is this: How much of the M≡ price is built into each MS $10K? $20K? $30K?. Elon/Tesla might just take that secret to their grave.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
That depends on what you mean by 'funded'; R&D? Yes. Capital for the factory? Yes. Actual Materials and Labour required to build the car? No. Tesla needs to show that their revenue RISES if they build more cars...
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Nah. The only 'secret' is why do people fail to acknowledge that Tesla Motors had needed every dime they have received to survive long enough to successfully launch Model ☰? Instead, they continually proclaim that Tesla is 'losing' money. No one notes that money spent on the Gigafactory, improvements at Fremont, and expansion of Supercharger, Sales, and Service networks is a necessary investment. Instead, the narrative is that Tesla is 'burning money' in an unreasonable fashion. There has to be some reason why this story persists in the face of all that Tesla has accomplished thus far. It is as if someone has a very big stake in ensuring Tesla Motors is seen as a failure, no matter what the actual facts.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
I believe their revenue has risen. Their expenditures have risen as well. But Wall Street wants to see books that have no RED ink. Investors want to see dividends. Customers want to see products. Enthusiasts want to see the company survive. Not all those goals, or the means by which they might be reached, are in harmony with each other.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Take a look at the base price of various BMW model series for comparison ... many are twice the price with additional options
You're absolutely right; the general public have no idea how accounting actually works....
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