Funds for Maryland Plug-In electric vehicles for fiscal year 2016 are depleted

[Pollux]

I think folks were upset that rich people were getting tax breaks for buying expensive cars that they would have bought anyway..

As a matter of "optics" - I agree this issue exists (although I don't think it should matter).

As a matter of reality - requires some additional data to support the theory that these so-called "rich people" were in fact (a) rich by some definition -- don't forget all the people stretching to get this car, and the vast gulf in cost between 60s and P100DLs and (b) these "rich people" were going to buy Teslas anyway and not, say, Audis or BMWs or Mercedes or etc.

Alan

 

[Sonny Daze]

As a matter of "optics" - I agree this issue exists (although I don't think it should matter).

As a matter of reality - requires some additional data to support the theory that these so-called "rich people" were in fact (a) rich by some definition -- don't forget all the people stretching to get this car, and the vast gulf in cost between 60s and P100DLs and (b) these "rich people" were going to buy Teslas anyway and not, say, Audis or BMWs or Mercedes or etc.

Alan

I don't disagree, but this is politics we are talking about.

 

[acadapter]

This proposed bill needs some work ---

1) If this is retroactive which so far the details suggest, I don't believe they can now change the requirements for the purchase price cap applicable to the previous program (through June 30th, 2017).
2) The section pertaining to efective date of purchase from July 1st, 2017-2020 which it would seem all of the details apply (such as purchase price cap)

 

[Lanny]

Maryland EV tax credit extension bill HB 406 passed the House today.

Vehicles that exceed $60,000 purchase price are not eligible in this version.

Bill to Extend Maryland EV Tax Credit Moves Forward

 

[Pollux]

Huh. Boy, I'd sure have preferred to see a means-tested approach rather than a sales price cut-off. When the choice is between a Tesla S or X that can entirely replace an ICE, versus a Leaf or similar that can't (well except for limited use cases), it's not right to penalize the more functional product simply because it costs more. Let's encourage a pair of schoolteachers to reach for a Tesla. And if you make more than $100K (or $200K or wherever you want to draw the line), then the incentive phases out.

On the other hand, if this thing starts July 1, 2017, at the very least there are gonna be a ton of early M3 people who are going to qualify for this incentive!

Alan

 

[bro1999]

Seems restricting the credit to people earning ____ or less would make more sense than making vehicles over $60k ineligible for the credit. If a person making $100k a year saves up enough money to buy a $100k car, why punish them? While at the same time let someone making $500k a year cash in on their $55k vehicle purchase.
But what do I know.

 

[Lanny]

New York has announced an EV rebate program funded with $55 million that provides up to $2,000 per car including Tesla Model S and X.

How the Drive Clean Rebate Works - NYSERDA

 

[Lanny]

A bill (SB393) to extend the Maryland EV excise tax credit and EVSE tax rebate has just passed both houses of the General Assembly. Will have more details on the exact content by Tuesday.

 

[Pollux]

Thank you, @Lanny.

 

[Allante]

There is no retroactivity in the bill passed by the General Assembly. That means that those customers -- like me -- who relied on the purported availability of the tax credit through 2017, which then became depleted without any warning to potential customers, are ****ed.

Thank you, MD legislators. You continue to inspire our faith and confidence in your ability to govern.

Time to move to a more EV-friendly jurisdiction. MD certainly no longer qualifies as one.

 

[Sonny Daze]

There is no retroactivity in the bill passed by the General Assembly. That means that those customers -- like me -- who relied on the purported availability of the tax credit through 2017, which then became depleted without any warning to potential customers, are ****ed.

Thank you, MD legislators. You continue to inspire our faith and confidence in your ability to govern.

Time to move to a more EV-friendly jurisdiction. MD certainly no longer qualifies as one.

Well, I remember reading last summer that the program would run out of money early, and how many states offer any advantages to EV buyer/owners? Hop over the river to Virginia where EV buyers pay an additional registration fee to "make up" for the gas taxes they won't be paying (even though point of sale taxes were eliminated). I understand you got screwed and MD could do better, but it could be worse.

 

[Lanny]

There is no retroactivity in the bill passed by the General Assembly. That means that those customers -- like me -- who relied on the purported availability of the tax credit through 2017, which then became depleted without any warning to potential customers, are ****ed.

Thank you, MD legislators. You continue to inspire our faith and confidence in your ability to govern.

Time to move to a more EV-friendly jurisdiction. MD certainly no longer qualifies as one.

I followed this legislation closely and watched the hearings in the House and Senate. I also spoke to sponsors of the bills. Some tough decisions had to be made in order to stretch the funds so they last longer. One of the compromises was to disqualify all vehicles that sell for more than $60,000. Another decision was to not go back and give credits to people who bought since the previous program expired when the funds for it ran out.

@Allante, Which legislators did you contact to present your situation and ask for the credit to be retroactive?

 

[Pollux]

@Lanny,

Does the legislation anticipate Model 3?

Thanks,
Alan

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

Frankly very few states in the US offer anything special for EVs. The biggest carrot right now is the Federal 7500 rebate - which for Tesla will be done next year. And I just cannot imagine the current administration extending that.

 

[Lanny]

@Pollux,

The bill drafters seem to be resigned to the fact that even with the increase in funding for the program and disqualifying purchases over $60,000, that the funds still are likely to run out before the end of each fiscal year. If, as likely, large numbers of Maryland residents buy the Model 3 and apply for the credit, it will drain the pot of available funds even faster.

In meetings where the Maryland EV excise tax credit extension was discussed, I heard concerns that Tesla purchasers were taking a large portion of the available funds. My understanding is that Governor Hogan, who presented the bill as "The Clean Cars Act of 2017," didn't want these incentives going to individuals who can afford expensive luxury cars. At a Senate committee hearing, the Governor's
Deputy Legislative Officer characterized Tesla cars as a "vanity purchase."

 

[Pollux]

A "vanity purchase". Sheesh. The only practical EV that can fully replace an ICE -- sorry, NOT sorry that they couldn't price that at Prius-level in 2012. So painful to see people willingly ignore information, or even Elon's Secret Master Plan.

I wish people could just means-test the damned incentive. When I know teachers and other frugal types scraping to save up bucks for a Tesla, it's obvious at least to me that they should get full incentives while "individuals who can afford expensive luxury cars" like me certainly would still like to receive the incentives but can somehow manage to get by anyway. Come to think of it, if this is a tax credit and it's administered through the MD Department of Revenue or whatever they call it, then it'd be pretty easy to means-test the thing.

So, basically, the legislators want to provide the tax credit, but don't want any manufacturer to do too well at claiming the credits.

Well... way better to have some incentive rather than none. I am grateful that MD is willing to keep this program operating, when most other states simply don't care.

I ran into a lot of very similar attitudes in Massachusetts.

Thanks,
Alan

P.S. Sorry to keep bothering you with questions, but: *HOGAN* presented the bill? What does that mean? How deeply is he engaged? I ask because my wife has someone signed up to present carbon fee-and-dividend legislation the next time the legislature sits.... wondering whether Hogan's apparent interest in the EV incentive issue might somehow connect up with an eventual carbon pricing discussion in the MD legislature.

 

[bro1999]

We have to ask ourselves what the main purpose of the state EV rebate is. Is it to help stimulate EV sales in the state to help reduce CO2 emissions and reduce pollution in our state? If the answer is yes, is the typical Tesla buyer going to be influenced by a $3k rebate on whether or not they will make the purchase? Likely not. They will buy regardless of a $3k rebate or not. Average transaction price on a new Tesla is over $100k, and $3k is only 3% of that.

Now will a person looking to purchase or lease say a Leaf right now (probably less than $10k to lease a Leaf for 36 months) be influenced by a $3k rebate that can potentially cover 33% of their total leasing costs? I would say much more than a 3% incentive on a Tesla.

 

[Lanny]

*HOGAN* presented the bill? What does that mean? How deeply is he engaged?

"Governor Hogan also announced his plan to introduce the Clean Cars Act of 2017, which will increase the investment in the Electric Vehicle tax credit program by over 30 percent and double the Charging Station rebate. Increasing these tax credits will make the purchase and use of electric vehicles more affordable and convenient, encouraging Maryland consumers and businesses to invest in this environmentally friendly mode of travel."
​

Source: Governor Larry Hogan - Official Website for the Governor of Maryland

See also: Salisbury News: HEARING ALERT: Clean Cars Act Of 2017

 

[Pollux]

We have to ask ourselves what the main purpose of the state EV rebate is. Is it to help stimulate EV sales in the state to help reduce CO2 emissions and reduce pollution in our state? If the answer is yes, is the typical Tesla buyer going to be influenced by a $3k rebate on whether or not they will make the purchase? Likely not. They will buy regardless of a $3k rebate or not. Average transaction price on a new Tesla is over $100k, and $3k is only 3% of that.

Now will a person looking to purchase or lease say a Leaf right now (probably less than $10k to lease a Leaf for 36 months) be influenced by a $3k rebate that can potentially cover 33% of their total leasing costs? I would say much more than a 3% incentive on a Tesla.

If we're worried that somehow an undeserving, price-insensitive, well-off person will get a rebate, then why wouldn't we also be worried about that same person getting a $3K rebate on a Leaf? Maybe they buy 4 at a time to outfit their kids. Or 8 at a time to outfit their butlers and maids. Tempting to then get $24K back on that 8-at-a-time deal. Pays for another small bauble for the wife!

I say means-test it all so that we are explicit about the progress nature of the rebate. Heck, means-testing it may turn out to imply that we can spend MORE on a rebate for a lower-income person!

Another way to look at this is through the lens of corporate welfare. Those rebates stimulate sells and help manufacturers of low-volume EV products ascend to the next level. You'd like the best cars to make it through the gate -- not just the cheapest cars. If people are buying lots of a certain kind of EV, that's probably a good thing and to be encouraged. Better still if the cars are popular everywhere, not just in the CARB compact states because they are loss-leaders to be able to sell the rest of a company's model array.

I am grateful that people buy and lease the Leaf. It has helped get us where we are today. But the Leaf and many (all?) other EVs are pretty limited compared to the Tesla Model S. The point of the Model S is that it's the first *practical* EV. Sure, it has an upscale image. But it hauls a lot of cargo, hauls 5-7 people, can go cross-country, can operate for a day or two at a time before recharging, handles winter as well as summer. That practicality had a financial cost: it wasn't cheap to provide an 85kWh battery. There's a reason that the Model S isn't regarded as a particularly luxurious car compared to others in its price segment: a lot of the value of the car is in its infrastructure, not in its trappings. So let's help those of limited means but reasonable aspiration into an EV that can completely replace an existing ICE automobile, if that's what they would prefer rather than a more-limited EV.

Alan

 

[Pollux]

"Governor Hogan also announced his plan to introduce the Clean Cars Act of 2017, which will increase the investment in the Electric Vehicle tax credit program by over 30 percent and double the Charging Station rebate. Increasing these tax credits will make the purchase and use of electric vehicles more affordable and convenient, encouraging Maryland consumers and businesses to invest in this environmentally friendly mode of travel."
​

Source: Governor Larry Hogan - Official Website for the Governor of Maryland

See also: Salisbury News: HEARING ALERT: Clean Cars Act Of 2017

Thank you, kind sir.