Funny sighting at Hawthorne supercharger today

[scaesare]

I can't see why the Tesla charger can't have a slot in it were you can charge other EV for a fee. Maybe $2.00 an hour or $3.00 a 1/2 hour. I know if I was driving a non Tesla prod and I was stuck with 15 miles left, I would pay $5.00 for another 30 miles. Heck that is almost cheaper than GAS. I can see were Gas stations are going to jump on that idea soon. They charge for AIR now. $1.00 a min in my area..

My thought was more along the lines of:

-Telsa licenses the Supercharging specification/technology to others to incorporate in to cars as well as build chargers.

-Other EV manufacturers or third parties can build "pay-for-service" supercharging stations along whatever profit model makes sense for them

-Large-scale fast charging infrastructure using the Tesla standard eventually emerges

-Many makes of BEV's can use a variety of chargers

-Tesla owners can take advantage of both the free Tesla Supercharger Network, OR a 3rd-party pay-for charger, as needs dictate

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

My boss put regular gas into a Diesel Truck. ...Department of Transportation

He is a far worse driver than any woman I have seen driving :wink:

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I can't see why the Tesla charger can't have a slot in it were you can charge other EV for a fee. Maybe $2.00 an hour or $3.00 a 1/2 hour. I know if I was driving a non Tesla prod and I was stuck with 15 miles left, I would pay $5.00 for another 30 miles. Heck that is almost cheaper than GAS. I can see were Gas stations are going to jump on that idea soon. They charge for AIR now. $1.00 a min in my area..

- Competition: Tesla model is that long-range BEV is the future and they are using Supercharging to try to push their model.
- Contention: BEVs take time to charge and contention is a significant issue as volume builds; slow-charging space hoggers are bad.
- Complexity/Cheapness: Supercharging is pre-pay and is enabled in the car. This makes the Superchargers very simple, plug in and go. No swiping, no transaction, no stupid CA law about accepting credit cards, no Internet connectivity needed. All it needs is the working Supercharger controller and power from the grid. Pre-pay helps pay for the high cost of build-out, manufacturing, maintenance and management costs are kept low.

 

[PhilBa]

This may well have been a posed picture. But either way, this brings back my thinking on EV plazas. I can see in the future EV charging plazas along the lines of the travel plazas you see on interstates. A cluster of restaurants/convenience stores surrounding charging facilities. An SC, a bunch chademos and L2s (some HA). and, of course any others that actually have cars on the road. It's not yet viable but someday...

 

[efusco]

Straying a little off topic...I wonder if anyone is thinking of creating a Tesla to Chademo adapter that would allow the Leaf to "steal" a charge from a supercharger? Is it even possible to do that? Is there software in the Supercharger that would prevent charging of a non-Tesla vehicle?

 

[CalDreamin]

Straying a little off topic...I wonder if anyone is thinking of creating a Tesla to Chademo adapter that would allow the Leaf to "steal" a charge from a supercharger? Is it even possible to do that? Is there software in the Supercharger that would prevent charging of a non-Tesla vehicle?

I doubt if that would work. A Tesla Model S 60 that doesn't have Supercharging enabled has all the necessary hardware but still can't use a Supercharger, it won't work if they try. Apparently the communications handshake between the Supercharger and the car includes verification that the car has Supercharging enabled (i.e. paid for).

 

[Cottonwood]

Straying a little off topic...I wonder if anyone is thinking of creating a Tesla to Chademo adapter that would allow the Leaf to "steal" a charge from a supercharger? Is it even possible to do that? Is there software in the Supercharger that would prevent charging of a non-Tesla vehicle?

I would guess that Tesla has a cryptographically secure authorization protocol on the Supercharger interface. Most likely, a Supercharger to CHAdeMO adapter would have to be licensed and authorized by Tesla including billing info.

On the J1772 and other EVSE front, remember that the limiting resource at most Supercharger sites is the availability of parking spaces. Tesla probably wants to dedicate the limited parking space resource to Tesla vehicles. In addition, most Supercharger sites do not have any (or much) 208V or 240V power. The main transformer at most sites provides 480V/277V 3-phase power which is incompatible with most EVSE's, including J1772's. To get 208V or 240V power would require additional transformers; possible, but yet another expense and space requirement.

 

[islandbayy]

I doubt if that would work. A Tesla Model S 60 that doesn't have Supercharging enabled has all the necessary hardware but still can't use a Supercharger, it won't work if they try. Apparently the communications handshake between the Supercharger and the car includes verification that the car has Supercharging enabled (i.e. paid for).

Also, each supercharger is internet enabled, so that also means that the Supercharger could do a VIN lookup to verify supercharger is enabled on a vehicle.

 

[FredTMC]

This may well have been a posed picture. But either way, this brings back my thinking on EV plazas. I can see in the future EV charging plazas along the lines of the travel plazas you see on interstates. A cluster of restaurants/convenience stores surrounding charging facilities. An SC, a bunch chademos and L2s (some HA). and, of course any others that actually have cars on the road. It's not yet viable but someday...

It wasn't a posed picture.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Also, each supercharger is internet enabled, so that also means that the Supercharger could do a VIN lookup to verify supercharger is enabled on a vehicle.

That doesn't fit with the model. Requiring an Internet connection in order to charge adds another point of failure and more cost.

 

[Stoneymonster]

That doesn't fit with the model. Requiring an Internet connection in order to charge adds another point of failure and more cost.

While they may not depend on it for authentication, I can pretty much guarantee each station has at least a 3g wireless uplink for telemetry and monitoring.

 

[liuping]

What a great opportunity you had to play the Good Soldier....

At any rate, this experience suggests it would be in Tesla's great interest to place conspicuously at all SpC's an informative sign gently suggesting where non-Tesla EVs might find the nearest appropriate charger, or to a local tourist info site, for example, for leads on same.

This is a great idea. It certainly would not hurt to have a little info about Tesla Cars in general and what Supercharging is all about at each site.

Maybe on the same sign, they could also post info about paired stalls. I've seen people pull up and plug into a spot that is sharing power with a car already charging, even though there are other open spots that would charge at full power.

 

[brianman]

Straying a little off topic...I wonder if anyone is thinking of creating a Tesla to Chademo adapter that would allow the Leaf to "steal" a charge from a supercharger? Is it even possible to do that? Is there software in the Supercharger that would prevent charging of a non-Tesla vehicle?

I assumed long ago that Tony had already explored the idea.

 

[ThosEM]

Really good point! Some Nissan dealers will turn away a Tesla driver, but many will allow use of an adapter and give what charge they have available, including level 3 CHAdeMO in more and more cases. Should not Tesla return the favor? Of course it would be incumbent on Nissan to provide an adapter from Tesla to CHAdeMO or J1772. Not that a Leaf can make it from one Supercharger to another, but in the spirit of increasing the EV charging infrastructure, we need to be looking toward interoperability.

In the longer run, would it not make sense for Tesla to put in a billing process for non-Tesla users?

I hope so, because I've heard of plenty of stories where Nissan dealerships help out Model S owners. That is pretty hilarious, though!

 

[Zythryn]

...
In the longer run, would it not make sense for Tesla to put in a billing process for non-Tesla users?

They already have. They have expressed willingness to license the technology to other manufacturers.
Adding a 'per use' billing method would be unnecessarily costly, complicated, and add a level of complexity that is moving in the wrong direction.

As for quid-quo-pro, some Nissan dealers do, some don't, some will tell you yes on the phone, but the manager on duty when you show up may refuse. Perhaps the "fair" thing would be to make access random? :tongue:

 

[jerry33]

In the longer run, would it not make sense for Tesla to put in a billing process for non-Tesla users?

I don't think so because it would add a lot of complexity and require a billing staff. It would also make it less convenient for Tesla owners. The current plan of "We'll allow other cars to charge if they use our model" is the right thing to do. Of course, there won't be many takers as it's in the short term interest of other car makers to make the charging situation as confusing as possible so as not to take away from their ICE car sales (most are still hoping EV sales will die).

 

[jcaspar]

Are you sure this isn't a Model E prototype?? :wink:

 

[Matt_D]

My thought was more along the lines of:
-Telsa licenses the Supercharging specification/technology to others to incorporate in to cars as well as build chargers.

"Supercharging" isn't a protocol or a spec, it's inherent to the design of the battery and support systems. Elon as said repeatedly that he'd be open to licensing it, but that would mean Tesla would need control over the entire drivetrain and implementation, which is usually where the discussion falls apart.

From a business standpoint, I can see future value in having an open platform once the technology is commoditized, but it's simply not there yet.

 

[scaesare]

"Supercharging" isn't a protocol or a spec, it's inherent to the design of the battery and support systems. Elon as said repeatedly that he'd be open to licensing it, but that would mean Tesla would need control over the entire drivetrain and implementation, which is usually where the discussion falls apart.

From a business standpoint, I can see future value in having an open platform once the technology is commoditized, but it's simply not there yet.

The car has to have fast DC charging built in... but the supercharger itself is a high-power DC fast charger that is believed to be interoperable with the SAE spec and with a proprietary connector.

Tesla could license both the specifications for the supercharger unit themselves, as well as the connector necessary on the car-side. As part of that, the data protocol spec (or any extensions if it is indeed simply SAE) could be licensed for implementation in the vehicle side.

Tesla doesn't need control over the drive train. They just need the the foreign-vehicle BMS to be able to speak Tesla's possible dialect of SAE.

 

[capt601]

Imagine the volts clogging up the superchargers like they do every other charger. We would never be be able to charge, just so they could get another 35 miles more while sitting for hours upon hours.