Further discussion and analysis on why the yoke is not good

[DayTrippin]

I think the Lexus software will be refined an reduce the lag. I trust Lexus would do it faster than Tesla would as I think they actually care about their customers.

It does have a redundant system but nothing mechanical as a backup. It is all steer by wire.

 

[zebrafish]

I took delivery of a LR S with a yoke because the car I ordered (with standard steering wheel) was damaged. Tesla is going to replace the yoke for free in my case— so I’ve had some time to try a yoke out. I’m seriously considering keeping it. I like the added visibility of the screen.

As some have pointed out, for multiple steering wheel/yoke rotations, the yoke takes some getting used to. But it is kind of growing on me.

 

[zoomer0056]

the yoke takes some getting used to

I had not driven any EV at all before taking delivery of my Feb 2022 MSLR. I was excited about the new tech. The first drive was around the parking lot .... AWESOME. It took concious effort to learn (not get used to) how to use the controls, but not a problem at all. I did put a clear plastic raised button over the horn. This gives my thumb something to find without looking. The turn signals already have a raised line between them.

 

[Midnightsun]

I took delivery of a LR S with a yoke because the car I ordered (with standard steering wheel) was damaged. Tesla is going to replace the yoke for free in my case— so I’ve had some time to try a yoke out. I’m seriously considering keeping it. I like the added visibility of the screen.

As some have pointed out, for multiple steering wheel/yoke rotations, the yoke takes some getting used to. But it is kind of growing on me.

I find it rather liberating to not have the wheel portion in front of my face. No going back to a wheel for me.

 

[strider]

looks like everyone who likes the yoke is a pilot or wants to be a pilot . Going based off of your picture

I'm a pilot and hate the yoke in the car. Airplane yokes never go past 90 degrees in either direction and even then you only go that far when on the ground to verify that the controls are "free and correct." I don't ever go beyond 30 degrees in the air except during unusual attitudes training. The fact that Tesla didn't change the ratio and just switched to a yoke is classic Tesla. Don't think something through, just do it and then deal with the consequences. The fact that they are offering a wheel is a rare (but welcome) admittance that they were wrong.

Bottom line, I'm glad Tesla is giving people a choice - they should have done that all along.

 

[K.I.T.T.23]

I think the Lexus software will be refined an reduce the lag. I trust Lexus would do it faster than Tesla would as I think they actually care about their customers.

It does have a redundant system but nothing mechanical as a backup. It is all steer by wire.

I find your support in Lexus and how they "actually care" kind-a funny. They care about their bottom line... just like Tesla.

I love your signature btw... stalks frustrate me, I don't care for them 90% of the time. The lack of stalks was actually part of what drew me to the Model S over getting a LR or Performance Model 3. I have come to prefer the Yoke to a wheel, and it has only ben a few months... though I do drive 150 miles a day.

To each their own!

 

[Midpack]

I'm a pilot and hate the yoke in the car. Airplane yokes never go past 90 degrees in either direction and even then you only go that far when on the ground to verify that the controls are "free and correct." I don't ever go beyond 30 degrees in the air except during unusual attitudes training. The fact that Tesla didn't change the ratio and just switched to a yoke is classic Tesla. Don't think something through, just do it and then deal with the consequences. The fact that they are offering a wheel is a rare (but welcome) admittance that they were wrong.

Bottom line, I'm glad Tesla is giving people a choice - they should have done that all along.

The point discussed in post #350, definitely correctable. Hopefully Tesla will correct their error, as you describe, at some point - but I doubt it's just a software change.

 

[_panda]

I took delivery of a LR S with a yoke because the car I ordered (with standard steering wheel) was damaged. Tesla is going to replace the yoke for free in my case— so I’ve had some time to try a yoke out. I’m seriously considering keeping it. I like the added visibility of the screen.

As some have pointed out, for multiple steering wheel/yoke rotations, the yoke takes some getting used to. But it is kind of growing on me.

I took delivery end of quarter with a yoke knowing I can shell out 700 and get the wheel, so wanted to experience it. I find it very cool and awesome for daily driving, which is mostly highways and around 150+ miles. Needless to say, I'm keeping it for the foreseeable future

 

[sleepydoc]

It seems like the same group of people to me keep talking about how great the yoke is and it seems like a limited number quite frankly

I think there’s a need on some people’s part to justify their decision. It’s essentially a psychological defense mechanism - if you admit you don’t like it then you have to admit you made a mistake so you convince yourself you like it.

I’ve read some of the ‘Yoke is awesome!’ Threads and there’s a lot of false justifications and poor reasoning going on. As an example, people in the yoke cult claim it gives a better view of the dashboard. A well designed car fits the dash board within the steering wheel. I took a picture of our Honda Odyssey to illustrate this and the yoke zealots refused to believe the picture, saying the perspective must be wrong, etc. I think it’s called ‘yoke derangement syndrome’

Ayway, as you very correctly pointed out, there’s a reason cars have had steering wheels for the last 100 years. It’s not because no one thought to try a yoke - it’s because the steering wheel is better.

 

[bpjod]

... there’s a lot of false justifications and poor reasoning going on. As an example, people in the yoke cult claim it gives a better view of the dashboard. A well designed car fits the dash board within the steering wheel. I took a picture of our Honda Odyssey to illustrate this and the yoke zealots refused to believe the picture, saying the perspective must be wrong, etc. I think it’s called ‘yoke derangement syndrome’

Ayway, as you very correctly pointed out, there’s a reason cars have had steering wheels for the last 100 years. It’s not because no one thought to try a yoke - it’s because the steering wheel is better.

It's somewhat dependent on the individual. I've never been able to see the dash on any vehicle I've ever driven and I've driven a lot of vehicles over the years. I'm too tall. My head also usually doesn't fit under the roof in most vehicles and the headrests jut between my shoulder blades. For reference, I couldn't fit in the S that had a sunroof without leaning my head to the middle to go into the sunroof cavity, and it's headrests weren't high enough, but they were close. Don't get me started on airplane seats.

My 3 was a revelation. I loved being able to see everything on the centre console in spite of the dire warnings that the 3 was undriveable because it didn't have a dashboard. No more bobbing my head around simply trying to figure out the speed I was driving or if my high beams were on. Now I have a yoke on an X. There are advantages to both the yoke and the round steering wheel. Thing is, 98-99% of the time the advantages of the yoke come into play and 1-2% of the time the advantages of the steering wheel come into play. On the flip side, the disadvantages of the yoke can be a little more annoying than those of the steering wheel. I consider it a wash. Now that the yoke costs extra, I doubt I'd pay more for it, but I'm glad I have one. As for the centre screen vs. dashboard, I've put in 8,500 km on the X since the week before Christmas and I still prefer everything being on the centre screen, and that's even with the yoke not obscuring my view.

What I have learned over the years from the centre console and now the yoke is that a lot of people like to see things in black and white and none moreso than those who haven't ever even experienced the thing/feature they're opining about...

 

[sleepydoc]

It's somewhat dependent on the individual. I've never been able to see the dash on any vehicle I've ever driven and I've driven a lot of vehicles over the years. I'm too tall. My head also usually doesn't fit under the roof in most vehicles and the headrests jut between my shoulder blades. For reference, I couldn't fit in the S that had a sunroof without leaning my head to the middle to go into the sunroof cavity, and it's headrests weren't high enough, but they were close. Don't get me started on airplane seats.

My 3 was a revelation. I loved being able to see everything on the centre console in spite of the dire warnings that the 3 was undriveable because it didn't have a dashboard. No more bobbing my head around simply trying to figure out the speed I was driving or if my high beams were on. Now I have a yoke on an X. There are advantages to both the yoke and the round steering wheel. Thing is, 98-99% of the time the advantages of the yoke come into play and 1-2% of the time the advantages of the steering wheel come into play. On the flip side, the disadvantages of the yoke can be a little more annoying than those of the steering wheel. I consider it a wash. Now that the yoke costs extra, I doubt I'd pay more for it, but I'm glad I have one. As for the centre screen vs. dashboard, I've put in 8,500 km on the X since the week before Christmas and I still prefer everything being on the centre screen, and that's even with the yoke not obscuring my view.

What I have learned over the years from the centre console and now the yoke is that a lot of people like to see things in black and white and none moreso than those who haven't ever even experienced the thing/feature they're opining about...

if you're tall enough that you hit your head on the roof of a Tesla then you're well outside of the norms for which cars are designed. (I'm just over 6'5" and most would consider me outside of the 'normal range' yet I have plenty of headroom.) For you I expect few if any cars would allow adequate adjustments so the yoke would make a big difference in dashboard visibility. For the 99.99% of people shorter than us it shouldn't be an issue.

One of the main disadvantages of the yoke involves steering, particularly in emergency situations. As the fundamental purpose of the steering wheel/yoke that pretty much trumps everything else.

I'm glad to see Telsa now offers the steering wheel standard and the yoke as an option so people at least have a choice.

 

[aesculus]

It's somewhat dependent on the individual. I've never been able to see the dash on any vehicle I've ever driven and I've driven a lot of vehicles over the years. I'm too tall. My head also usually doesn't fit under the roof in most vehicles and the headrests jut between my shoulder blades. For reference, I couldn't fit in the S that had a sunroof without leaning my head to the middle to go into the sunroof cavity, and it's headrests weren't high enough, but they were close. Don't get me started on airplane seats.

My experience (6' 4") when I got into a Model S the first time. Really had to work to find a decent position. Sat in a Model X next and that sealed it. Everyone around me said my face lit up.

BTW I can see the dash clearly in my "wheeled" Model X.

 

[WilliamG]

My experience (6' 4") when I got into a Model S the first time. Really had to work to find a decent position. Sat in a Model X next and that sealed it. Everyone around me said my face lit up.

BTW I can see the dash clearly in my "wheeled" Model X.

I've not had the chance to check out an OEM wheel, but a customer at Tesla let me sit in their X last year, and while it's not the same shape as OEM, it gave me an idea of the view. This was what my eyes see at 6'5". It might be close with the the fully rounded wheel, but as mentioned - yet to see one at a showroom...

 

[aesculus]

I've not had the chance to check out an OEM wheel, but a customer at Tesla let me sit in their X last year, and while it's not the same shape as OEM, it gave me an idea of the view. This was what my eyes see at 6'5". It might be close with the the fully rounded wheel, but as mentioned - yet to see one at a showroom...

View attachment 934891

My comments are from the original steering wheel, not the yoke replacement one. Sorry for the confusion. The new wheel is not round and it appears to block some of the dash panel.

 

[WilliamG]

My comments are from the original steering wheel, not the yoke replacement one. Sorry for the confusion. The new wheel is not round and it appears to block some of the dash panel.

That picture I posted is, as you say, not fully round. The OEM one is. Hopefully sometime this decade I get the chance to sit in an OEM-wheel Model S, so I can decide whether I can see enough to switch from the rubbish yoke.

 

[sleepydoc]

I've not had the chance to check out an OEM wheel, but a customer at Tesla let me sit in their X last year, and while it's not the same shape as OEM, it gave me an idea of the view. This was what my eyes see at 6'5". It might be close with the the fully rounded wheel, but as mentioned - yet to see one at a showroom...

View attachment 934891

This is an excellent example of a poorly designed wheel/dashboard. The blockage can be mitigated somewhat by moving the wheel up but it won't eliminate it. Below is the view I have in our Honda Odyssey. The designers clearly designed the dash to fit the wheel and gimmicks like a yoke are completely unnecessary. I'm glad it wasn't the OEM steering wheel and Tesla is not shipping cars like this. Poor form on the 3rd party that designed it, but that's a separate issue.

The picture does remind me of another fundamental failure of the yoke - the absence of stalks. I posted an article in another thread discussing how many car makers are retreating from touchscreens because physical controls are easier, safer and preferred by customers. The blinkers and drive controls on the yoke are another example of a 'new' touch interface that is not better, just newer technology.

 

[Boza]

I would argue that yoke, in general, is not a problem; Tesla’s implementation is the problem. There are many track cars where the yoke is actually beneficial (have not seen a single street car, though).
However, the real issue is the lack of stalks and the “fix” does not solve that problem. There are certain crucial controls (blinkers, horn) that humans must find and use subconsciously. That will not happen if the driver needs .5s first to find them. Granted, .5s delay in using the horn is not likely to make a difference in warning the others but the distraction will. Humans, especially males, are pretty bad at multitasking and such switching between yaks, especially in dangerous situations, is a bad idea.
There is a large body of existing knowledge on the matter; no need to reinvent the wheel - literally.

 

[sleepydoc]

There are many track cars where the yoke is actually beneficial (have not seen a single street car, though).

The steering ration is often different in those cars such that you don’t need to turn the wheel as much as in a typical car.

 

[DayTrippin]

Since it looks like they are removing stalks on the refreshed 3, curious to see how the general populace will react to that...

 

[sleepydoc]

Since it looks like they are removing stalks on the refreshed 3, curious to see how the general populace will react to that...

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