FYI: My opinion is Model 3 > Model S

Hopefully this might be helpful to anyone who has a Model 3 and is considering moving to a Model S after the price cuts.

When Tesla did the price cuts they also dropped Model S prices like $20k or so. I was in the area and figured I hadn't driven a new S, much less any S, in six years or so. A Plaid S is like half the price of the Roadster and worse in some ways but better in some ways. Roadster seems like it may still be a while, let me check this thing out. Hopefully I love it. I think the refresh did a lot for the look, I think it's by far the best looking Tesla you can get right now. As soon as I got in I was like hell no. It's still so big and some things are still like the original S. In fact, the items you can see in the photo with the yoke is all the new good stuff but the center console, doors, etc all were very old school. I put the suspension in the most aggressive settings and went out for a 20 minute drive. The yoke was a zero issue. I'm not sure if I like it more, but I had no negatives about it. I immediately did some U turns and 3 point turns and it was a zero problem. One thing I didn't like was how big and wide the yoke is, which is how the S steering wheel is as well. The three has a smaller wheel which is far sportier. Now this S, the long range, is about the same acceleration specs as my performance 3. I nailed it and it felt much slower, but at the same time gave me a fuzzy head feeling, something I experienced in the P100D S I drove years ago but not in my model 3. The acceleration was far less enjoyable somehow. Looking at the speedo you could see it was getting up to speed quickly but just didn't feel like it. This is in line with some people who have upgraded from a Model 3 P to a Model S Plaid and say the car, while being far quicker, doesn't feel much quicker if at all. The screen above the wheel I thought would be nice but it's kind of lame. It's just redundant information and felt very old school. I was very surprised by my impression that the single center screen is superior. The new center screen on the S is larger and able to tilt in different directions...that screen was absolutely awesome...especially being able to play Steam games on it. The haptic buttons on the yoke were ok. I probably prefer old school stalks but I expected to hate the buttons but didn't. It was fine. The visibility wasn't nearly as good as the 3 and I had to get the seat very high up to get a good sporting view of the road. Also, the brakes stopped fine but didn't have nice feel to it. This is a great car [the best?] for someone who doesn't care about how a car drives. It's a shame. It looks hot, has Steam, 400 range, all the goods, but just drives like a big old man car. Not for me. I'll keep waiting on that Roadster. Until then, IMHO the best car they make is the Model 3 P which can be had for $47k and that's insane because, seriously, I think it's the best car on the market today at any price.

 

[Lindenwood]

@tm1v2 at what level of aftermarket investment in an M3P would it be worth going to a Plaid? I imagine a Plaid with the same investment would be about as fast in AutoX, but would be significantly faster around a road coarse.

I ask because while I am very happy with the $80k total I have in my M3P (including suspension, brakes, and now a few sets of wheels and tires), the only real way to make them faster in a straight line without significantly sacrificing road comfort is weight reduction with Carbon Fiber, which is something like $15k to drop 200 pounds (including aftermarket seats) to shave maybe 0.25 in the 1/4 mile.

Overall Id definitely pay 75k (at current prices ranges) for a M3 Plaid with two carbon-sleeved motors producing maybe 700hp to run perhaps a 2.7 0-60 and 10.7@128 1/4!

 

[Plaid650]

Id seriously question anyone claiming the plaid doesnt feel significantly faster than the m3p. 115 vs 150 traps. That’s different galaxies of speed.

I'd agree, even from a dead stop the plaid is fast enough to be uncomfortable, never once felt that way in the 3P. At freeway speed it's an even bigger difference as the 3P becomes pretty anemic above 70.

 

[enemji]

The Model 3 belongs to the class of Sports Sedan, whose foundation was laid by the BMW 3 series in the early nineties, and lived up by many others such as the Mercedes C-class, Mazda 323/Protege/Mazda3, Honda Civic, etc. Their main goal - be a drivers car, connect to the road, and give the Zoom Zoom feeling.

 

[enemji]

a little more tidbit on why the Model3 is such a fun to drive car:

"Perhaps the most interesting tidbit discussed by the Tesla engineers involved the Model 3’s suspension. In true Elon Musk fashion, Tesla actually used concepts from NASA when it was refining the suspension settings of the electric sedan. The electric car maker based the Model 3’s suspension settings on a study by the space agency about how long the human body can be subjected to a certain frequency without feeling uncomfortable. Considering that the vertical frequency of a suspension’s movement affects comfort and drivability, Tesla engineers settled on a vertical frequency that is equivalent to a brisk walk or a slow run to give the Model 3’s chassis a comfortable, sporty feel. "

Tesla engineers share Model 3 steering, drivetrain, and suspension secrets

The Tesla Model 3 is practically taking over the electric car market, establishing a strong presence in every region where it is released. A key reason behind this lies in the fact that the Model 3 happens to be a really fine automobile that just happens to be electric. It’s quick on its feet...

www.teslarati.com

and this

"Apart from the Model 3’s battery and its electronics, Munro also noted that the suspension for the Model 3 was excellent. The teardown specialist went so far as to state that the person who designed the car’s suspension could easily be an “F1 prince.”

Tesla Model 3 modules are comparable to F-35 flight controller, says expert

Tesla Model 3 critic and Detroit veteran Sandy Munro discussed much of the results of his company’s teardown of the electric car in a recent episode of Autoline After Hours. In a lengthy discussion with the network’s panel, Munro explained what he liked about electric car, even gushing at one...

www.teslarati.com

 

[enemji]

Totally agree. Somehow the Plaid makes me drive like a granddad. It's super fast, crazy fast but it doesn't invite you to drive fast somehow. The Models 3 feels like a go kart, it hides it's weight very well. I drove way more aggressive in the M3P than the Plaid.
However, it definitely has nicer (cooled) seats, the interior is nicer, the full hatch is nice. In my opinion it looks better as well.
It this all worth more than twice the money of a Model 3? In my opinion not, however if you have the money to spare, yes it's a nicer car.

This post #24 should help understand why the Model S feels like a grandfather compared to the Model 3.

FYI: My opinion is Model 3 > Model S

Hopefully this might be helpful to anyone who has a Model 3 and is considering moving to a Model S after the price cuts. When Tesla did the price cuts they also dropped Model S prices like $20k or so. I was in the area and figured I hadn't driven a new S, much less any S, in six years or so. A...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Snirpo]

This post #24 should help understand why the Model S feels like a grandfather compared to the Model 3.

FYI: My opinion is Model 3 > Model S

Hopefully this might be helpful to anyone who has a Model 3 and is considering moving to a Model S after the price cuts. When Tesla did the price cuts they also dropped Model S prices like $20k or so. I was in the area and figured I hadn't driven a new S, much less any S, in six years or so. A...

teslamotorsclub.com

Yeah it makes sense. I guess it all depends on what you want from a car and what it's worth to you. The fact is, the Model 3 is already a damn good car and more than fast enough for the street. In my experience the Model S is more comfortable, but it's all subjective, it depends what you want from a car. The Model S feels heavier and bigger, but it is heavier and bigger, so it kinda makes sense. That power though when you full throttle it, is incomparable to the Model 3, especially on higher speeds.

Taking in account the price difference, I also think the Model 3 is better than the Model S. To be honest the only reason I bought the Plaid is because of the 1000hp. Personally I would've never bought the standard Model S.

 

[popgodazipa]

Yeah it makes sense. I guess it all depends on what you want from a car and what it's worth to you. The fact is, the Model 3 is already a damn good car and more than fast enough for the street. In my experience the Model S is more comfortable, but it's all subjective, it depends what you want from a car. The Model S feels heavier and bigger, but it is heavier and bigger, so it kinda makes sense. That power though when you full throttle it, is incomparable to the Model 3, especially on higher speeds.

Taking in account the price difference, I also think the Model 3 is better than the Model S. To be honest the only reason I bought the Plaid is because of the 1000hp. Personally I would've never bought the standard Model S.

What % of your driving time are you using the Plaids extra horse power? Are you not driving the “standard” Model S the majority of the time you are in the car? Unless you want us to believe you are flooring it from your cul de sac to the local Starbucks and kids soccer game. Spare us the pretense please…

 

[enemji]

Yeah it makes sense. I guess it all depends on what you want from a car and what it's worth to you. The fact is, the Model 3 is already a damn good car and more than fast enough for the street. In my experience the Model S is more comfortable, but it's all subjective, it depends what you want from a car. The Model S feels heavier and bigger, but it is heavier and bigger, so it kinda makes sense. That power though when you full throttle it, is incomparable to the Model 3, especially on higher speeds.

Taking in account the price difference, I also think the Model 3 is better than the Model S. To be honest the only reason I bought the Plaid is because of the 1000hp. Personally I would've never bought the standard Model S.

The Model 3 already makes me giddy when I stomp on the accelerator…. I don’t need to buy a faster car that feels like a 747. I’ll take the F35 anytime

 

[Snirpo]

What % of your driving time are you using the Plaids extra horse power? Are you not driving the “standard” Model S the majority of the time you are in the car? Unless you want us to believe you are flooring it from your cul de sac to the local Starbucks and kids soccer game. Spare us the pretense please…

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I fully agree with you. I'm only saying the only reason I bought the Plaid is because of the 1000hp, because I thought it was extremely cool to have. But you are right, in reality, it's pretty much pointless. So if you don't need the extra "luxury", comfort and space of the Model S, the Model 3 is the better car for a way better price.

 

[enemji]

What is truly interesting to note here is that Toyota/Lexus, Infinity, Cadillac spent the last two decades to build a BMW 3-Series beater amd Tesla achieved that without even trying to beat the 3-Series. Just amazing talent at Tesla.

 

[The Other Dan]

The Model 3 already makes me giddy when I stomp on the accelerator…. I don’t need to buy a faster car that feels like a 747. I’ll take the F35 anytime

my M3P is named Fat Amy after the F35.

 

[tm1v2]

What is truly interesting to note here is that Toyota/Lexus, Infinity, Cadillac spent the last two decades to build a BMW 3-Series beater amd Tesla achieved that without even trying to beat the 3-Series. Just amazing talent at Tesla.

@enemji "Without even trying to beat the 3-series" - I would bet the 3 series was very much in mind for many who worked on the Model 3.

Side note... @Lindenwood Your question has been on my mind. I'm still mulling it about.

 

[AnselmDante]

I read everyone else's post but that wall of text on the original post needs some formatting.

I test drove the 3, but the cockpit felt claustrophobic for my size. I also had a hard time buying a car without an instrument cluster in front of the steering. I was sold on Tesla based on my Model 3 test drive, but sitting in the S in the showroom had me buy one based on how I felt sitting in the S.

I absolutely love my MSLR (minus the Steam screwing by Tesla), but the Model 3 definitely is a fun car to drive.

 

[enemji]

Did you know back in the days the only specifications that Rolls Royce provided in terms of power of their car was the word “enough”. That is so true when you have a car that is aiming to be a luxurious automobile.

 

[stevehifi]

If you do any kind of modifications for track/autox get the model 3, as there's almost no aftermarket for the model s/plaid (air suspension).

Also remember model s insurance premium is very high due to the aluminum body and repair cost.

 

[tm1v2]

@tm1v2 at what level of aftermarket investment in an M3P would it be worth going to a Plaid? I imagine a Plaid with the same investment would be about as fast in AutoX, but would be significantly faster around a road coarse.

I ask because while I am very happy with the $80k total I have in my M3P (including suspension, brakes, and now a few sets of wheels and tires), the only real way to make them faster in a straight line without significantly sacrificing road comfort is weight reduction with Carbon Fiber, which is something like $15k to drop 200 pounds (including aftermarket seats) to shave maybe 0.25 in the 1/4 mile.

Overall Id definitely pay 75k (at current prices ranges) for a M3 Plaid with two carbon-sleeved motors producing maybe 700hp to run perhaps a 2.7 0-60 and 10.7@128 1/4!

@Lindenwood I'm not really an acceleration addict. I think I'm not the right person to make a suggestion on this. Every car I've bought has been quicker than the last, but that's mainly because cars keep getting quicker in general.

With a quicker new car I'm used to it within like one day. Or even one drive. First time I floored an M3P up a ramp, on our test drive, I was like . After that...it mostly feels expected and normal. Still kinda thrilling, but not enough to seek out places to do it.

Probably at some point of crazy quick it would keep being a raw thrill. S Plaid might be that. I can't say. But M3P is already irresponsibly quick most places I drive. The places where I could comfortably floor it much are far from any chargers, and it's not really worth the big power drain in that situation. I'll floor it for passing in those places but that's about it.

I can't imagine where I'd use the Plaid's acceleration in my driving. There was a time I'd explore 110+ mph on straight highways away from cities in the middle of the night...but my days of that are long over. Even if I thought the situation would allow for it safely, I fear for my license too much. It's trouble I don't need.

So I can't help with the acceleration part, but I do see two other big advantages of the Plaid over M3P.

1) Dual rear motors. This should be much better than the open diff in the M3P. I think there are some LSD's available for the M3P rear drive unit but not many are running them, and per-wheel motors is a way better solution for an EV.

2) From the stories I've read, it seems Tesla made a significant leap in thermal management and power consistency with the Palladium S. Despite the huge power, it's actually more robust and more consistent for track use than the M3P - both for road courses and repeated drag strip runs. The thermal envelop is higher and it is more consistent as state-of-charge drops.

On the flip side, that's offset by how big and numb and air sprung and yoke-y the Model S is. It's faster, but as this thread shows, that doesn't mean more fun. You can swap out the air suspension for aftermarket coilovers, but now you're throwing away two of its nicer street car features that you paid $$$$ for. And you can't downsize it...it's just going to be big always. The yoke you can swap to a wheel, but that won't give you the Model 3's quick steering ratio. Etc.

For another take on S Plaid for M3P, with a racetrack focus, remember this blog post from MPP...

Remembrance, Looking Forward, And Plaid

Remembrance, Looking Forward, And Plaid. Join us as we unveil the MPP.R Tesla Model S Plaid! 1,000hp+, 4,800lbs, and it stops and turns too!

www.mountainpassperformance.com

Note that was before S Plaid Track Mode was released. Just like the M3P, it seems Track Mode is needed to put power down in turns with the S Plaid.

I think if your budget allows it would be a fun project to try making an S Plaid feel truly nimble and responsive in all the ways. MPP is certainly working on it. I don't really know what it takes for a car like the Model S. Certainly Tesla's old "Plus" suspension option for the original Model S was a BIG upgrade in those regards, but from memory I don't think even a P85+ can compare at all to our M3Ps on coilovers for that fun, sporty, tossable feeling.

Personally if I'm just looking for extra driving fun I'd rather buy a small sports car to have alongside the M3P. Like a BRZ or a 4C (depending on how raw and track-focused I want). As I said though, I'm not an acceleration addict...your preferences may vary. Also the Model S is awesome. And beautiful and practical. It's just not a "driver's car" like the Model 3.

 

[comanchepilot]

Wife has a 2021 S LR. I have a 2023 Model 3 Performance. I have driven both obviously. I strongly prefer the 3. The S is a true sedan - the M3P is a pocket rocket. I always have an idea where the wheels are in the 3 - whereas the S is a little more loose when it comes to where the car is at any given time Not driven a Plaid or a Performance The S drives like a large sports sedan. The suspension is not as tight.

I have a more nuanced explanation but thats the short version.

 

[tm1v2]

@Lindenwood Thinking back, my favorite car to just run through the gears was a 162hp n/a 4cyl sport compact. All the cars I've bought since have been much quicker and more powerful, but that car had the best feeling shifter, a nice exhaust note (esp for a 4cyl), and short gearing that meant I could rip through a couple gears without getting into impound / night-in-jail territory.

I remember the thrill of reaching that car's top speed, a redline limited 129mph in 5th gear. The car I had before it could only dream of such speeds!

M3P on coilovers feels incredibly stable at every speed I've taken it to. On late night highway drives I have caught myself doing 100+ mph occasionally without any idea I was going so fast. Feels like nothing to the car. Would be nice to really explore deeper into triple digits in this car. Maybe someday, somewhere.

 

[Lindenwood]

@tm1v2 Thanks for the inputs! All I owned for two years of college (including Winter) was a Ninja 250 and I rode that thing like I stole it. So, I understand exactly how you feel!

And yes, as you mentioned, 99% of the time the M3P is already irresponsibly quick, and this makes me feel better about not missing out on that last 1% hah.

If you only have a few grand as a gearhead with no transportation, do you buy a boring, 150k-mile grocery-getter, or a Ninja 250 and some Long Underwear? No regrets!

 

[enemji]

I am definitely pleased that the M3 talks to me how it is behaving with the road. That is the beauty of NVH fine tuning. It is so easy to shut up anyone and anything to be quiet but very difficult to make sure it keeps on sweet talking without being annoying.