Garage charging me $75/month in electricity for Model 3...

[NickFie]

Downtown Chicago based: I'm trying to understand how much people's electricity bills realistically go up and figure out how/why my garage is asking $75/month in electricity.

The Teslafi app tracks power input by location. Among many other vehicle parameters.

You could use it to document KWh consumed at the garage. If you input a location’s total cost per KWh, you also get electricity cost.

Started using Teslafi a few weeks ago, wish I had used it since delivery. For example, last weekend I used $6.62 of our electricity to drive from our house near Philadelphia to the bank, local daughter’s house and then other daughter in Washington, DC.

Or, maybe these three powerful words explain why the garage charges $75/month, “Because they can.”

 

[rdlink]

Yeah, we are lucky here. I just did the math tonight:

I pay a little over 10 cents per kWh not including the minimum meter fee of a little over $10 here in Portland Oregon.

Some very rough math here: 310 mile max range. 44 miles an hour of charging on my 48 amp 240v charger. That draws 11.52 kW. 310/44 = 7.045 hours. Times 11.52 = 81.16 kWh to *fill* the "tank" from dead flat to 100%. Times ten cents per kWh is $8.12 to "fill it up".

I find that to be insanely cheap.

Compare that to the $41.95 I just paid to put 91 octane in my 3 Series...

 

[Vintre]

The Teslafi app tracks power input by location. Among many other vehicle parameters.

I couldnt find this app. Is there another name for it?

Vin

 

[brkaus]

I couldnt find this app. Is there another name for it?

Vin

It isn't an app. It is a web page.

You can use my TMC name for an extended trial (4 weeks instead of 2).

I'd still do a meter, it is more "trustable" to an outsider.

 

[eprosenx]

Is this really one transformer per stall?

Yes. Literally one per stall. It seems weird, but it makes sense for the following reasons:

1. The voltage loss over long distances is massive. Doing this at 208v would require a ton of copper and would be non-optimal since you would be charging a little slower.
2. Folks will convert to electric at various times and so if you try to consolidate transformers you are having to buy upfront capacity that may never get used.
3. You are not having to "guess" what parts of the garage the demand will be in and where to put your stepdown transformers. You just add them as folks sign up for service.

Perhaps it is non-optimal, but it is what they came up with and it seemed pretty elegant to get the base infrastructure put in and then allow additions over time.

 

[djplong]

It cost me about $800 to buy and install a Tesla HPWC. Mine was easy since the HPWC is literally on the other side of the wall from where the electricity comes into the house and right next to the circuit breaker. For an apartment building, retrofitting new electrical runs could be expensive. Add all that up and you're looking at some costs to recoup and amortize - and they're looking at it as a long-term investment.

 

[Glamisduner]

It's not awful, but they are probably making a 50% markup on what most people will be using. I mentioned before that all infrastructure/charging plug will be the expense of the user (which I'm fine with). Just don't appreciate them gauging for no reason.

That's significantly cheaper than what I will pay to charge at my house after I do my own install. If I put up more solar panels though I will be under $100 a month for charging for the first 15-20 years anyways, otherwise I'm looking at closer to $250+ a month without panels.

My point in this post is to make you feel better, and then to complain as usual about our ridiculous power rates. In other words, I wish I only had to worry about $75 a month, instead I have to take another huge solar loan to keep charging around $100 a month.

 

[rdlink]

It cost me about $800 to buy and install a Tesla HPWC. Mine was easy since the HPWC is literally on the other side of the wall from where the electricity comes into the house and right next to the circuit breaker. For an apartment building, retrofitting new electrical runs could be expensive. Add all that up and you're looking at some costs to recoup and amortize - and they're looking at it as a long-term investment.

The OP has literally said at least two or three times in this thread that HE is paying for the installation.

 

[djplong]

I missed the first reply where he said that - my bad.

I wonder how much he's going to have to pay ON TOP OF the $75/mo. In my head, the only way that number made sense was if the management was paying for the install.

 

[rdlink]

I missed the first reply where he said that - my bad.

I wonder how much he's going to have to pay ON TOP OF the $75/mo. In my head, the only way that number made sense was if the management was paying for the install.

IDK. Not being an EV owner yet I don't have a lot of experience to draw on, but there seem to be a lot of people on this thread who believe $75 is not all that bad. I think it's a tad high, given his intended driving range per month (1000). I did some "back of the envelope" calculations. If I calculated what I pay for a tank of gas, and extrapolate it to how many miles I get per money spent I end up paying about $.136 a mile. If he drives 1000 miles a month he will pay $.075 per mile. So he's still getting a steal of a deal vs. an ICE.

But, like many others on this thread I would suggest that he negotiate with the building, offering to pay to have a meter put in line on his charger, and pay a per kw charge based on his usage. The cost to add the meter shouldn't be too much, and would likely pay for itself quickly.

 

[Glamisduner]

IDK. Not being an EV owner yet I don't have a lot of experience to draw on, but there seem to be a lot of people on this thread who believe $75 is not all that bad. I think it's a tad high, given his intended driving range per month (1000). I did some "back of the envelope" calculations. If I calculated what I pay for a tank of gas, and extrapolate it to how many miles I get per money spent I end up paying about $.136 a mile. If he drives 1000 miles a month he will pay $.075 per mile. So he's still getting a steal of a deal vs. an ICE.

But, like many others on this thread I would suggest that he negotiate with the building, offering to pay to have a meter put in line on his charger, and pay a per kw charge based on his usage. The cost to add the meter shouldn't be too much, and would likely pay for itself quickly.

Indeed if he can pay the metered rate that would probably be better off. But if not, I would love only have to pay a flat $75 a month for charging compared to the $150-300ish I will have to pay permonth at tier 2 usage rates.

Maybe you can somehow indirectly suggest to them that you may exceed $75 a month in power but that it would be more fare to just pay the metered rate?

 

[mknox]

Not sure if ComEd is charging a demand fee on this commercial service. If so, EV charging could be pushing the building's peak demand up resulting in some costs that residential customers don't normally see.

 

[dhanson865]

Downtown Chicago based: I'm trying to understand how much people's electricity bills realistically go up and figure out how/why my garage is asking $75/month in electricity.

I'm moving in to a new apartment with an included garage spot (I own). I won't be commuting anywhere and will be driving probably 1,000 miles/month. Chicago electricity is pretty cheap, but yet they insist on the $75 flat fee. Any tips or suggestions to try to get them to lower this?

Assume 4 miles per kWh, figure out the cost of residential and business electricity in Chicago. Average Energy Prices, Chicago-Naperville-Elgin — June 2018 : Midwest Information Office : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics looks like 15 or 16 cents a kWh. That's about 4 cents per mile driven.

Take how many miles you drive your model 3 per month and multiply by .04 and that's about how many dollars the car is using in electricity if you compare to someone that has a house in your area.

As said above for a business demand charges can raise the effective rate. If it is terribly higher than your math shows your need consider not paying the $75 a month to charge there and charge at a L2/Chademo/Supercharger somewhere else instead.

If charging elsewhere is super inconvenient, consider the difference in cost a convenience fee.

 

[GregTexas]

My son rents a garage for $110/month that is not connected to his apartment unit. The electricity is free so he charges for free.

 

[TaoJones]

As one of the GUM (Great Unwashed Masses) who has been non-garaged since Day One (and welcomed by Tesla repeatedly to use SCs ad libitum unless and until there are charging options at home or at work), I would happily pay $75/month for charging. In fact, when we finally do get charging here in the harbor years hence, which is to say hopefully in my lifetime (since no infrastructure project on the California Coast goes quickly and without numerous layers of bureaucratic oversight and expense), I expect that a dedicated charging space will cost 50%-100% more than that.

And I'd happily pay it even though there are several SCs within a half-hour's drive, with more SC locations coming. Waking up with a full charge is a nice luxury to have.

The delay is just head-scratching as there is even grant money available for "green" coastal infrastructure projects. Regardless, 5-10 years was the initial estimate, and I have no reason to doubt the veracity thereof. It's been almost 4 years already, but there is light somewhere at the end of this tunnel, I'm sure of it.

Now, what that light is attached to is another question entirely.

 

[SSedan]

Seems to me most folks are ignoring charging losses which I believe make power use go up something like 10-15% over what the car used, also AC and heater use drive up energy use and being in Chicago the battery is going to need heating at times and that uses a LOT of power.
How is the parking garage temp in winter? If it is near outside temp for Chicago it will shock you how much juice it uses to warm the battery.

I would take the $75 offer they made you, all things considered I think the monthly fee of having a meter would put you over the $75.

I have a Model S that sees basically outdoor temps and a 7 mile each way commute even warming it of plugged and only really using battery heat to warm the battery on my way home I still see power use pretty much double in cold weather. I know the M3 has a different battery heating system and a parking garage may well spare you from the coldest weather, but all that aside, the people from CA(gross generalization on my part) ignoring charging inefficiencies and weather are not going to give you an accurate estimate.

 

[TaoJones]

Seems to me most folks are ignoring charging losses which I believe make power use go up something like 10-15% over what the car used, also AC and heater use drive up energy use and being in Chicago the battery is going to need heating at times and that uses a LOT of power.
How is the parking garage temp in winter? If it is near outside temp for Chicago it will shock you how much juice it uses to warm the battery.

I would take the $75 offer they made you, all things considered I think the monthly fee of having a meter would put you over the $75.

I have a Model S that sees basically outdoor temps and a 7 mile each way commute even warming it of plugged and only really using battery heat to warm the battery on my way home I still see power use pretty much double in cold weather. I know the M3 has a different battery heating system and a parking garage may well spare you from the coldest weather, but all that aside, the people from CA(gross generalization on my part) ignoring charging inefficiencies and weather are not going to give you an accurate estimate.

Good point. Fwiw, here in sunny SoCal, I routinely lose ~40% range when stuck in town for a week with short, urban trips. Have only lost 3.4% in max range over 16.5 months so it's not that. And when I do get out of town, point to point SC/highway travel is as solid as always.

The incoming non-garaged Model 3 contingent are in for a bit of an awakening when the marketing hype does not match real-world, practical usage.

I am reminded of what happened to gas mileage in my last ICE (a Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, which on a good day didn't get more than 30mpg. At one point, my 40-mile commute became a 4-mile commute, and my gas mileage dropped to *maybe* 15mpg. Why? The engine and assorted parts and pieces didn't have time to warm up to optimal temperature/efficiency. On top of the stop and go, of course.

So it's not without precedent, but you'll be hard-pressed to get a fanboi to admit there's more than a 30% hit in good weather and not uphill.

 

[SSedan]

So a P85 sees 320wh/m at 75mph or something in that ballpark. Last November was my first cold snap with the car, I left my sister's at 5F or thereabouts car hadn't been plugged into anything more than 15amp 120volt on extension cord dialed down to 9amp or driven more than 2 miles at a time in 4 days so it was stone stone cold. I didn't know to give it a 20minute warmup before leaving I figured the interior would warm in 5minutes, got on the highway with essentially no battery warming and cranked it up to 75mph and saw energy use go over 700wh/m I don't remember what interval I had it set to but that was over miles not instant............
Luckily there is a supercharger 20minutes in the direction of my place.
Lithium batteries can not be charged cold regen is charging so while the battery warms sucking down energy you have no regen so it is a double whammy on range.

Regen can be limited in the 40s for temp so the concerns about cold weather energy use don't mandate it be really cold. If it is 40f though there is regen so between that and driving the battery warms quickly just with use, it isn't the massive hit you see once it is well below freezing.

 

[P85_DA]

Indeed if he can pay the metered rate that would probably be better off. But if not, I would love only have to pay a flat $75 a month for charging compared to the $150-300ish I will have to pay permonth at tier 2 usage rates.

Maybe you can somehow indirectly suggest to them that you may exceed $75 a month in power but that it would be more fare to just pay the metered rate?

@Glamisduner u shouldn’t be paying tier 2 with SDGE ,..check EV-tou5 plan fixed fee plus non tiered rates ...way cheaper

 

[Glamisduner]

@Glamisduner u shouldn’t be paying tier 2 with SDGE ,..check EV-tou5 plan fixed fee plus non tiered rates ...way cheaper

I tried to switch my account but the website won't let me. It will only let me select the tradition EV-TOU which only saves me 4 cents per Kwh at night, and doubles my usage fees during peak 4:00-9:00 @ $.57 per Kwh! I will try contacting them again tomorrow.