With the US government pushing drivers to EVs, will there be a time when tax per mile will come into play since the federal highway fund is funded by fuel taxes? There has been some state’s proposal to implement a tax per mile. What are everyone’s opinions on tax per mile? I believe tax per mile will be inevitable due do the government’s hunger for tax revenues.
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Gas tax alternative(s) for EVs (US)
- Thread starter Lumbee
- Start date
Probably inevitable. Perhaps the only other way to do it would be to require separate electric meters be installed at the home for dedicated EV charging and tax revenues based on that, as well as publicly available EV charging stations such as TESLA Supercharger stations. Personally, I don’t like the idea of having to report my annual mileage to the government, because it’s none of their business how many miles I drive.
Per mile is going to be pretty irritating and people won't like that method. But there should be tax paid, and at the moment, I think it's just under half of the states in the U.S. who have already been doing this for several years. It's just a fixed amount fee that gets paid with the annual registration. The amounts are all over the board, as congress people who don't know #^%$ about electric cars picked them, and depending on how much animosity or support there is for clean vehicles there is in that state determines whether the fee amount is punitive or reasonable. When my electric car hating state first did it, it was $400 per year! I figured up the equivalent gas tax from our Honda Civic Hybrid, and that amount was way more than my real gas tax was.
Some states are going too low I think, with $40 or $50. It should probably be in the mid to upper 100's, maybe near $200.
I agree with you that per mile sucks, but it’s best since the annual registration amount will always be (should be) relative to the number of EV registrations each year, which is constantly changing.
I'm really confused by that. Why do you think the number of cars being registered per year is relevant? It's supposed to be like subtract ~$200 gas taxes, ~$200 EV fee to replace it.
That shouldn't make any difference whether it's 4 cars or 4 million cars. It's scaled to a level that is per car average usage, so the revenue swap should stay pretty close. As with any kind of pricing thing, though, it might need to be reevaluated every 10 years or something just to see if it needs to be raised or lowered to move with inflation or overall tax accounting or whatever, but that shouldn't need to jump around every year.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Many states use gas taxes to fund road construction/repair. It nominally makes sense it essentially functions like a user fee that adjusts for the amount you drive. EVs skirt that completely so I think it makes perfect sense to recoup it in other ways. We’re driving on the roads, why shouldn’t we expect to help pay for them?
Why is it none of their business how many miles you drive? You expect them to maintain the roads, right?
Like @Rocky_H said, many states are already adding an EV surcharge on to registration fees. MN adds $75, IIRC. A milage fee would make the most sense but unless the state already has an inspection program onto which they could add a milage certification, there isn’t an easy way to get the milage. The other issue is the people who drive the most are usually those who take road trips and drive a larger share of their miles in other states.
At that point you’re left with a surcharge on electricity, a vehicle surcharge or rolling the expenses into the states general fund. An EV surcharge is the most practical way.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
Having a fix tax is not fair for those who have a low mileage,
but reporting an annual mileage is also very complex,
unless for example, Tesla sending directly your mileage to your state DMV?
but reporting an annual mileage is also very complex,
unless for example, Tesla sending directly your mileage to your state DMV?
It was a bit of a mistake to "reward" people for owning EVs by giving charging stalls premium spots in parking lots. Even without worrying about ICE vehicles, it makes it highly tempting to park your EV there and plug in even if you don't really need charging.
I'd rather have charging in the back of the lot and walk a bit further.
I have yet to see a non-EV parked at a Supercharger space after 18 months. Maybe just lucky I guess.
That's not a "reward". It's not intentional at all. This is just a simple practical and cost reality that the electrical connections are usually to the building, so that's closest to where the power is. It would make the jobs much more difficult and complex to go dig up a big trench all the way through their parking lot and have to fill it in later to put it at the other end of the lot.
Hopefully not until the prices of EV's come down. We pay so much more for the EV so it's really not fair yet until the markets are equal. And I don't know about anyone else but I pay $8 in tolls per day to drive on the roads so isn't that money for the road I'm driving on?
They don't pay toll takers so is that savings getting passed down to me? nope. I also paid $4.5k to have my charger installed and electric prices are going up I'm @ .17c per KW.
Things will need to change lets just hope it's done fairly or we'll just all go back to gas. There's a nice R8 with my name on it if the Tesla no longer makes sense for a commuter
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
FTFY! There are many EVs more reasonably priced - chevy bolt, Nissan Leaf, VW id.4, Kia EV6, polestar 2 are all under $50k. Tesla’s are currently overpriced, IMO.
So you drive on no other roads besides toll roads?And I don't know about anyone else but I pay $8 in tolls per day to drive on the roads so isn't that money for the road I'm driving on?
They don't pay toll takers so is that savings getting passed down to me? nope. I also paid $4.5k to have my charger installed and electric prices are going up I'm @ .17c per KW.
Things will need to change lets just hope it's done fairly or we'll just all go back to gas. There's a nice R8 with my name on it if the Tesla no longer makes sense for a commuter
Electric cars could easily be charged a road tax per kwh charged. Mfg could readily get involved in the taxing process and of course, they would tack on their processing fee.
Imagine how much it would cost to charge your vehicle if dc charging stations were more like gas stations. Covered charge stations to protect you from the elements. Convenience stores with full time employees and dedicated bathrooms. Don't forget the road tax... I think all the "fuel" cost savings EVs tout today would be eroded.
That is the beauty of the EV though. As long as I can charge at home, I cut most of the middle man out of the equation. Right now, most EV purchasers are still "early adopters". As this changes over to mass adoption, I think the mass consumer will demand more before making the switch to EV. As long as fuel prices are artificially elevated, more people will adopt the EV. If gas prices are allowed to return to prior levels, EV adoption will slow.
This reminds me of cigarettes. You can still buy them, but the govt. taxes the crap out of them, to discourage their use and fund alternate strategies.. This may be the road taken to ensure change to enable a sustainable fuel policy for future transportation.
Imagine how much it would cost to charge your vehicle if dc charging stations were more like gas stations. Covered charge stations to protect you from the elements. Convenience stores with full time employees and dedicated bathrooms. Don't forget the road tax... I think all the "fuel" cost savings EVs tout today would be eroded.
That is the beauty of the EV though. As long as I can charge at home, I cut most of the middle man out of the equation. Right now, most EV purchasers are still "early adopters". As this changes over to mass adoption, I think the mass consumer will demand more before making the switch to EV. As long as fuel prices are artificially elevated, more people will adopt the EV. If gas prices are allowed to return to prior levels, EV adoption will slow.
This reminds me of cigarettes. You can still buy them, but the govt. taxes the crap out of them, to discourage their use and fund alternate strategies.. This may be the road taken to ensure change to enable a sustainable fuel policy for future transportation.
I don't care whether it's a per mile fee or a fixed fee as long as
(1) It's the more accurate of the two
(2) It's a consistent approach for all vehicles.
If it doesn't really matter how much you drive, single annual fee possibly varying by vehicle.
It it matters how much you drive, fee based on vehicle and distance driven.
Per mile should be easy to implement. It's (VIN, Odometer,money). VIN tells you what vehicle it is.
Once governments commit to it, they can also commit to standardizing access to read the data so that gradually any overhead in checking vehicles is removed.
(1) It's the more accurate of the two
(2) It's a consistent approach for all vehicles.
If it doesn't really matter how much you drive, single annual fee possibly varying by vehicle.
It it matters how much you drive, fee based on vehicle and distance driven.
Per mile should be easy to implement. It's (VIN, Odometer,money). VIN tells you what vehicle it is.
Once governments commit to it, they can also commit to standardizing access to read the data so that gradually any overhead in checking vehicles is removed.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
It depends on the state. In some states they go into the general fund, in others they go entirely to road maintenance by statute. In the end, Most if not all states spend as much or more on road maintenance than they collect in gas tax so it’s really a moot point.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
if you look at cars, 50k is not a high bar and I said under $50k. The Average cost of a new car is just above $47k so those cars are essentially below average cost and the chevy bolt starts at $26k.
Pretty much to work it's all turnpike. The bottom line is I'm not saving any money swapping to a Tesla. The money I spent on upgrading and charging and difference from my gas vehicle would take 10+ years to break even. I did it because I like the car and want to support the company doing something that will eventually be better for the planet. I'm not complaining though life isn't fair and my purchase doesn't need to somehow cheat the system. Just saying I hope they don't make it cheaper to drive an ICE vehicle because they tax the hell out of EV's or people will never even try them.
Me I have the means to try something new and waste some money. But the EV market should push towards reaching people that could use a break in their life and save some money to make their lives better.
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CyberGus
Not Just a Member
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