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Gateway and WiFi

charlesj

Active Member
Oct 22, 2019
1,052
218
Monterey, CA
I am curious in advance what band is the wi-fi in the gateway, 2.4 gHz or 5 gHz or either. And, if it is the 2.4 gHz which protocol, b, g, or n? My router on the 2.4 is set to the n protocol as the auto setting will reduce the connection speed to the router, not the line speed.
 
Jun 22, 2017
526
337
Bay Area, California
Tesla is wise to stick with 2.4 GHz. 5.0 GHz has poor wall penetration.

Go wired Ethernet if you can. The solar inverter should have a spare port if your solar installer went wired. The Tesla installers SAID they avoid touching a solar inverter if installed by someone else, so homeowner intervention is needed. I used *special* 600V sheathed Cat 6 cable. There was no way I was going to surrender my wifi password. To make this happen, maybe best to not provide WiFi. They left me with cellular, and the supervisor doing the inspection was DISPLEASED the team didn't wire Ethernet because it's is that easy. Tesla pays for the cellular data when it's in use. It would have taken months for them to come back, so I stepped in to help with the cause.
 

CWNE88

Member
May 13, 2019
27
25
Australia
The Wi-Fi design in that gateway is one of the worst I've ever seen. It jumps around adjacent channels (not the non-overlapping ones like it should), and uses PHY low bitrates which it shouldn't.
Even if you wire it in with Ethernet (best move), it still acts as an AP for the Neurio meter, unless you've got the 485 cable installed.

I looked into it a while back. You can see my findings about the RF behaviour here:

(Video might be a bit boring to most)
 

charlesj

Active Member
Oct 22, 2019
1,052
218
Monterey, CA
Thanks all. So it is 2.4 gHz band.
Then, is the wi-fi 802.11n or b/g? My router is set for n only and hate to downgrade it to b/g as the speed will be in the basement;)

Ethernet cable is about out. It so happens that in 1992 when I wired the place, cable Tv was for TV. Internet came much later and the hub was set up in the study on the 2nd story, a good 70 ft line of sight to the corner where PW will be installed.
Alternative if reception is weak, Gateway antenna mounted outside box and extender.
 

CWNE88

Member
May 13, 2019
27
25
Australia
It's 802.11g my friend. Here's a capture of a beacon for you.
At least it's on channel 11 at the moment, but that often changes to stupid channels as shown.

Frame 1: 160 bytes on wire (1280 bits), 160 bytes captured (1280 bits) on interface 0
Interface id: 0 (en0)
Interface name: en0
Interface description: Wi-Fi
Encapsulation type: IEEE 802.11 plus radiotap radio header (23)
Arrival Time: Nov 14, 2019 15:24:37.639894000 AEST
[Time shift for this packet: 0.000000000 seconds]
Epoch Time: 1573709077.639894000 seconds
[Time delta from previous captured frame: 0.000000000 seconds]
[Time delta from previous displayed frame: 0.000000000 seconds]
[Time since reference or first frame: 0.000000000 seconds]
Frame Number: 1
Frame Length: 160 bytes (1280 bits)
Capture Length: 160 bytes (1280 bits)
[Frame is marked: False]
[Frame is ignored: False]
[Protocols in frame: radiotap:wlan_radio:wlan]
Radiotap Header v0, Length 25
Header revision: 0
Header pad: 0
Header length: 25
Present flags
Present flags word: 0x0000086f
.... .... .... .... .... .... .... ...1 = TSFT: Present
.... .... .... .... .... .... .... ..1. = Flags: Present
.... .... .... .... .... .... .... .1.. = Rate: Present
.... .... .... .... .... .... .... 1... = Channel: Present
.... .... .... .... .... .... ...0 .... = FHSS: Absent
.... .... .... .... .... .... ..1. .... = dBm Antenna Signal: Present
.... .... .... .... .... .... .1.. .... = dBm Antenna Noise: Present
.... .... .... .... .... .... 0... .... = Lock Quality: Absent
.... .... .... .... .... ...0 .... .... = TX Attenuation: Absent
.... .... .... .... .... ..0. .... .... = dB TX Attenuation: Absent
.... .... .... .... .... .0.. .... .... = dBm TX Power: Absent
.... .... .... .... .... 1... .... .... = Antenna: Present
.... .... .... .... ...0 .... .... .... = dB Antenna Signal: Absent
.... .... .... .... ..0. .... .... .... = dB Antenna Noise: Absent
.... .... .... .... .0.. .... .... .... = RX flags: Absent
.... .... .... .0.. .... .... .... .... = Channel+: Absent
.... .... .... 0... .... .... .... .... = MCS information: Absent
.... .... ...0 .... .... .... .... .... = A-MPDU Status: Absent
.... .... ..0. .... .... .... .... .... = VHT information: Absent
.... .... .0.. .... .... .... .... .... = frame timestamp: Absent
.... .... 0... .... .... .... .... .... = HE information: Absent
.... ...0 .... .... .... .... .... .... = HE-MU information: Absent
.... .0.. .... .... .... .... .... .... = 0 Length PSDU: Absent
.... 0... .... .... .... .... .... .... = L-SIG: Absent
...0 .... .... .... .... .... .... .... = Reserved: 0x0
..0. .... .... .... .... .... .... .... = Radiotap NS next: False
.0.. .... .... .... .... .... .... .... = Vendor NS next: False
0... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... = Ext: Absent
MAC timestamp: 10906627
Flags: 0x10
.... ...0 = CFP: False
.... ..0. = Preamble: Long
.... .0.. = WEP: False
.... 0... = Fragmentation: False
...1 .... = FCS at end: True
..0. .... = Data Pad: False
.0.. .... = Bad FCS: False
0... .... = Short GI: False
Data Rate: 1.0 Mb/s
Channel frequency: 2462 [BG 11]
Channel flags: 0x0480, 2 GHz spectrum, Dynamic CCK-OFDM
.... .... ...0 .... = Turbo: False
.... .... ..0. .... = Complementary Code Keying (CCK): False
.... .... .0.. .... = Orthogonal Frequency-Division Multiplexing (OFDM): False
.... .... 1... .... = 2 GHz spectrum: True
.... ...0 .... .... = 5 GHz spectrum: False
.... ..0. .... .... = Passive: False
.... .1.. .... .... = Dynamic CCK-OFDM: True
.... 0... .... .... = Gaussian Frequency Shift Keying (GFSK): False
...0 .... .... .... = GSM (900MHz): False
..0. .... .... .... = Static Turbo: False
.0.. .... .... .... = Half Rate Channel (10MHz Channel Width): False
0... .... .... .... = Quarter Rate Channel (5MHz Channel Width): False
Antenna signal: -91dBm
Antenna noise: -95dBm
Antenna: 0
802.11 radio information
PHY type: 802.11g (6)
Short preamble: False
Proprietary mode: None (0)
Data rate: 1.0 Mb/s
Channel: 11
Frequency: 2462MHz
Signal strength (dBm): -91dBm
Noise level (dBm): -95dBm
Signal/noise ratio (dB): 4dB
TSF timestamp: 10906627
[Duration: 1272µs]
[Preamble: 192µs]
[Start: 10905355µs]
[End: 10906627µs]
IEEE 802.11 Beacon frame, Flags: ........C
Type/Subtype: Beacon frame (0x0008)
Frame Control Field: 0x8000
.... ..00 = Version: 0
.... 00.. = Type: Management frame (0)
1000 .... = Subtype: 8
Flags: 0x00
.... ..00 = DS status: Not leaving DS or network is operating in AD-HOC mode (To DS: 0 From DS: 0) (0x0)
.... .0.. = More Fragments: This is the last fragment
.... 0... = Retry: Frame is not being retransmitted
...0 .... = PWR MGT: STA will stay up
..0. .... = More Data: No data buffered
.0.. .... = Protected flag: Data is not protected
0... .... = Order flag: Not strictly ordered
.000 0000 0000 0000 = Duration: 0 microseconds
Receiver address: Broadcast (ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff)
Destination address: Broadcast (ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff)
Transmitter address: RedpineS_d8:dc:14 (00:23:a7:d8:dc:14)
Source address: RedpineS_d8:dc:14 (00:23:a7:d8:dc:14)
BSS Id: RedpineS_d8:dc:14 (00:23:a7:d8:dc:14)
.... .... .... 0000 = Fragment number: 0
0011 1000 1010 .... = Sequence number: 906
Frame check sequence: 0x3d103e02 [unverified]
[FCS Status: Unverified]
IEEE 802.11 wireless LAN
Fixed parameters (12 bytes)
Timestamp: 11113472409
Beacon Interval: 0.204800 [Seconds]
Capabilities Information: 0x0431
.... .... .... ...1 = ESS capabilities: Transmitter is an AP
.... .... .... ..0. = IBSS status: Transmitter belongs to a BSS
.... ..0. .... 00.. = CFP participation capabilities: No point coordinator at AP (0x00)
.... .... ...1 .... = Privacy: AP/STA can support WEP
.... .... ..1. .... = Short Preamble: Allowed
.... .... .0.. .... = PBCC: Not Allowed
.... .... 0... .... = Channel Agility: Not in use
.... ...0 .... .... = Spectrum Management: Not Implemented
.... .1.. .... .... = Short Slot Time: In use
.... 0... .... .... = Automatic Power Save Delivery: Not Implemented
...0 .... .... .... = Radio Measurement: Not Implemented
..0. .... .... .... = DSSS-OFDM: Not Allowed
.0.. .... .... .... = Delayed Block Ack: Not Implemented
0... .... .... .... = Immediate Block Ack: Not Implemented
Tagged parameters (95 bytes)
Tag: SSID parameter set: TEG-043
Tag Number: SSID parameter set (0)
Tag length: 7
SSID: TEG-043
Tag: Supported Rates 1(B), 2(B), 5.5(B), 11(B), 6, 9, 12, 18, [Mbit/sec]
Tag Number: Supported Rates (1)
Tag length: 8
Supported Rates: 1(B) (0x82)
Supported Rates: 2(B) (0x84)
Supported Rates: 5.5(B) (0x8b)
Supported Rates: 11(B) (0x96)
Supported Rates: 6 (0x0c)
Supported Rates: 9 (0x12)
Supported Rates: 12 (0x18)
Supported Rates: 18 (0x24)
Tag: DS Parameter set: Current Channel: 11
Tag Number: DS Parameter set (3)
Tag length: 1
Current Channel: 11
Tag: Traffic Indication Map (TIM): DTIM 1 of 0 bitmap
Tag Number: Traffic Indication Map (TIM) (5)
Tag length: 4
DTIM count: 1
DTIM period: 2
Bitmap control: 0x00
.... ...0 = Multicast: False
0000 000. = Bitmap Offset: 0x00
Partial Virtual Bitmap: 00
Tag: Country Information: Country Code 00, Environment Any
Tag Number: Country Information (7)
Tag length: 6
Code: 00
Environment: Any (0x20)
Country Info: First Channel Number: 1, Number of Channels: 11, Maximum Transmit Power Level: 20 dBm
First Channel Number: 1
Number of Channels: 11
Maximum Transmit Power Level: 20dBm
Tag: ERP Information
Tag Number: ERP Information (42)
Tag length: 1
ERP Information: 0x00
.... ...0 = Non ERP Present: Not set
.... ..0. = Use Protection: Not set
.... .0.. = Barker Preamble Mode: Not set
0000 0... = Reserved: 0x00
Tag: Extended Supported Rates 24, 36, 48, 54, [Mbit/sec]
Tag Number: Extended Supported Rates (50)
Tag length: 4
Extended Supported Rates: 24 (0x30)
Extended Supported Rates: 36 (0x48)
Extended Supported Rates: 48 (0x60)
Extended Supported Rates: 54 (0x6c)
Tag: Vendor Specific: Microsoft Corp.: WMM/WME: Parameter Element
Tag Number: Vendor Specific (221)
Tag length: 24
OUI: 00:50:f2 (Microsoft Corp.)
Vendor Specific OUI Type: 2
Type: WMM/WME (0x02)
WME Subtype: Parameter Element (1)
WME Version: 1
WME QoS Info: 0xf0
1... .... = U-APSD: Enabled
.... 0000 = Parameter Set Count: 0x0
.111 .... = Reserved: 0x7
Reserved: 00
Ac Parameters ACI 0 (Best Effort), ACM no, AIFSN 2, ECWmin/max 3/10 (CWmin/max 7/1023), TXOP 0
ACI / AIFSN Field: 0x02
.... 0010 = AIFSN: 2
...0 .... = Admission Control Mandatory: No
.00. .... = ACI: Best Effort (0)
0... .... = Reserved: 0
ECW: 0xa3
1010 .... = ECW Max: 10
.... 0011 = ECW Min: 3
CW Max: 1023
CW Min: 7
TXOP Limit: 0
Ac Parameters ACI 1 (Background), ACM no, AIFSN 7, ECWmin/max 4/6 (CWmin/max 15/63), TXOP 0
ACI / AIFSN Field: 0x27
.... 0111 = AIFSN: 7
...0 .... = Admission Control Mandatory: No
.01. .... = ACI: Background (1)
0... .... = Reserved: 0
ECW: 0x64
0110 .... = ECW Max: 6
.... 0100 = ECW Min: 4
CW Max: 63
CW Min: 15
TXOP Limit: 0
Ac Parameters ACI 2 (Video), ACM no, AIFSN 2, ECWmin/max 3/4 (CWmin/max 7/15), TXOP 94
ACI / AIFSN Field: 0x42
.... 0010 = AIFSN: 2
...0 .... = Admission Control Mandatory: No
.10. .... = ACI: Video (2)
0... .... = Reserved: 0
ECW: 0x43
0100 .... = ECW Max: 4
.... 0011 = ECW Min: 3
CW Max: 15
CW Min: 7
TXOP Limit: 94
Ac Parameters ACI 3 (Voice), ACM no, AIFSN 2, ECWmin/max 2/3 (CWmin/max 3/7), TXOP 47
ACI / AIFSN Field: 0x62
.... 0010 = AIFSN: 2
...0 .... = Admission Control Mandatory: No
.11. .... = ACI: Voice (3)
0... .... = Reserved: 0
ECW: 0x32
0011 .... = ECW Max: 3
.... 0010 = ECW Min: 2
CW Max: 7
CW Min: 3
TXOP Limit: 47
Tag: Vendor Specific: Microsoft Corp.: WPA Information Element
Tag Number: Vendor Specific (221)
Tag length: 22
OUI: 00:50:f2 (Microsoft Corp.)
Vendor Specific OUI Type: 1
Type: WPA Information Element (0x01)
WPA Version: 1
Multicast Cipher Suite: 00:50:f2 (Microsoft Corp.) TKIP
Multicast Cipher Suite OUI: 00:50:f2 (Microsoft Corp.)
Multicast Cipher Suite type: TKIP (2)
Unicast Cipher Suite Count: 1
Unicast Cipher Suite List 00:50:f2 (Microsoft Corp.) TKIP
Unicast Cipher Suite: 00:50:f2 (Microsoft Corp.) TKIP
Unicast Cipher Suite OUI: 00:50:f2 (Microsoft Corp.)
Unicast Cipher Suite type: TKIP (2)
Auth Key Management (AKM) Suite Count: 1
Auth Key Management (AKM) List 00:50:f2 (Microsoft Corp.) PSK
Auth Key Management (AKM) Suite: 00:50:f2 (Microsoft Corp.) PSK
Auth Key Management (AKM) OUI: 00:50:f2 (Microsoft Corp.)
Auth Key Management (AKM) type: PSK (2)


That didn't paste how I wanted it to, but couldn't find a code button to make it paste nicely.
 

JohnRatsey

Member
Apr 30, 2018
148
59
UK
My installer used a pair of powerline adapters to provide a LAN connection for the gateway because it wasn't happy with the wi-fi (although it's only a few feet from the inverter which uses the wi-fi).
 
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charlesj

Active Member
Oct 22, 2019
1,052
218
Monterey, CA
My installer used a pair of powerline adapters to provide a LAN connection for the gateway because it wasn't happy with the wi-fi (although it's only a few feet from the inverter which uses the wi-fi).
That may be an option as well. Was this the Tesla installer? Was he prepared in advance to have the necessary parts on hand?
 

JohnRatsey

Member
Apr 30, 2018
148
59
UK
That may be an option as well. Was this the Tesla installer? Was he prepared in advance to have the necessary parts on hand?
No, it wasn't Tesla and they didn't have the parts with them so came back another day to finish (also they also got nearly frozen in my garage due to unseasonally chilly weather so were keen to go away and thaw out).
 

PBBear

Member
Oct 2, 2018
60
51
Australia
It's 802.11g my friend. Here's a capture of a beacon for you.
At least it's on channel 11 at the moment, but that often changes to stupid channels as shown.

Mine always locks on to the channel that the basestation SSID is being broadcast on - whichever channel number this is, it switches the internal 'TEG-XXX" SSID to the same channel. If something is changing to stupid channels, are you sure its not the gateway simply responding to your basestation choosing a new 'best channel'?
 

PBBear

Member
Oct 2, 2018
60
51
Australia
My installer used a pair of powerline adapters to provide a LAN connection for the gateway because it wasn't happy with the wi-fi (although it's only a few feet from the inverter which uses the wi-fi).

Mine went one better - installed a new LAN cable through the ceiling cavity to connect the Tigo optimiser control box to - which is mounted nestled within 1 foot of both the inverter and the PW2 gateway that both connect fine on WiFi. They installed the PW2 and inverter first, so they knew the WiFi was fine, but I suspect the installer didn't know how to use the Tigo menu to set up its wifi connection, so he burnt several hours dragging a physical cable instead. I haven't been bothered installing a small switch and moving the inverter and gateway to a cabled connection as well, as the WiFi is working fine.

But yes, to the OP - a pair of $40 ethernet-over-powerline modules should be your friend, if you have a power-socket nearby your gateway installation - or a pair where the remote module is a second WiFi basestation, so you can extend your wifi to have a strong signal close to the gateway. This sort of pair - https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-AV10...powerline+ethernet+wifi&qid=1573802708&sr=8-3 but there are many brands
 

CWNE88

Member
May 13, 2019
27
25
Australia
Mine always locks on to the channel that the basestation SSID is being broadcast on - whichever channel number this is, it switches the internal 'TEG-XXX" SSID to the same channel. If something is changing to stupid channels, are you sure its not the gateway simply responding to your basestation choosing a new 'best channel'?

You are using yours as a wireless client, so of course it will follow your access point (what you're calling a base station).
It's internal AP will use the same channel as it is as a client because it only has the one radio, hence yours would be stable.

Mine is not connected to my home Wi-Fi, as I use Ethernet to connect to it. That means when it acts as the AP for the Neurio, it just goes all over the place like a mad woman's breakfast, because there's no real AP dictating a channel to use.
 
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davidwpb

Member
May 17, 2019
48
10
west palm beach, florida
I didn't see anyone mention wired, did I miss something, maybe you are talking wireless within the system. I was told I needed an internet connection but not a hard wired one so I assumed it would be wireless. On install day they asked where my router was and said they needed to see it. They are planning to do wired connection over power wiring. I did notice antennas on the gateway panel though. Maybe that is just from the little box gateway to the panel? See link for the AV600 Powerline Starter Kit they showed up with. and let me know if you need anything else, I have the boxes and manuals for these still at my house, waiting for installers to come back.
TL-PA4010 KIT | AV600 Powerline Starter Kit | TP-Link
 
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charlesj

Active Member
Oct 22, 2019
1,052
218
Monterey, CA
I didn't see anyone mention wired, did I miss something, maybe you are talking wireless within the system. I was told I needed an internet connection but not a hard wired one so I assumed it would be wireless. On install day they asked where my router was and said they needed to see it. They are planning to do wired connection over power wiring. I did notice antennas on the gateway panel though. Maybe that is just from the little box gateway to the panel? See link for the AV600 Powerline Starter Kit they showed up with. and let me know if you need anything else, I have the boxes and manuals for these still at my house, waiting for installers to come back.
TL-PA4010 KIT | AV600 Powerline Starter Kit | TP-Link
Well, I was asking strictly as a wi-fi from the Gateway as that is an option. From what I understand, one can use or rather Tesla can connect through telephone cell tower by an add on device, or Ethernet cable directly to wi-fi router. The latter is not an option for me.

And now, I see from your link, they can attach that powerline device into an 120 V power outlet with Ethernet cable from it to router then another such device by the Gateway with wi-fi signal through the 120V. Come to think of it, my Enphase uses a similar device to get to the router.
That will work as well, then I don't have to worry about the wi-fi protocol capability or distance.
Thanks
 

PBBear

Member
Oct 2, 2018
60
51
Australia
one can use or rather Tesla can connect through telephone cell tower by an add on device, or Ethernet cable directly to wi-fi router. The latter is not an option for me.

Note its not "either/or" - the PW2 gateway can be simultaneously connected via WiFi and hard-wired cable to your home LAN, AND through their internal 3G gateway to the cellphone network - up to all three simultaneously. It will use whichever provides the best connectivity at any moment to upload its data to the Tesla server mothership. A connection to your home LAN is only necessary if you want to monitor it using in-home IT, upload the data to PVOutput or similar, etc - but if you don't have any connection to the home LAN, it will fall back to using the 3G cellular connection to get its data back to Tesla so the official Tesla app monitoring will still work.
 

charlesj

Active Member
Oct 22, 2019
1,052
218
Monterey, CA
Note its not "either/or" - the PW2 gateway can be simultaneously connected via WiFi and hard-wired cable to your home LAN, AND through their internal 3G gateway to the cellphone network - up to all three simultaneously. It will use whichever provides the best connectivity at any moment to upload its data to the Tesla server mothership. A connection to your home LAN is only necessary if you want to monitor it using in-home IT, upload the data to PVOutput or similar, etc - but if you don't have any connection to the home LAN, it will fall back to using the 3G cellular connection to get its data back to Tesla so the official Tesla app monitoring will still work.
Thanks.
Is this a standard practice by Tesla to use all connections available on each installation to ensure best reception or just after the wi-fi is not working out well enough.
If it is standard, then I should not have any worry, especially if they use that powerline connection as well to get to the router.

I just bought an iPhone 5S just so I can monitor the Tesla app from anywhere.
 

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