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Gauging Interest: Model S Front Caliper Upgrade Kit
- Thread starter MasterC17
- Start date
Both of my rotor options will do the same. Though, I am not sure I would consider it a selling point, $10 worth of spacers would achieve the same result.
lookmtb
Member
I can't figure out how to quote from other threads, but please look at the following link:
Vendor - Mountain Pass Performance Intro - Updates
@MountainPass seems to not agree with this method of brake upgrade. For those who have installed MS rotors on your 3 how did the ABS react?
Vendor - Mountain Pass Performance Intro - Updates
@MountainPass seems to not agree with this method of brake upgrade. For those who have installed MS rotors on your 3 how did the ABS react?
We have never done it, it is purely speculation. Let the data speak for itself!
I'm curious more than anything. Are the rotors larger in diameter? I know the piston size question has been asked. The nature of hte question is brake bias. Nothing scarier than a tail happy car going into heavy braking, such as going into 10A at Road Atlanta. Now granted, in my case, the car is a full on race car (968 is the one that was this big issue, due in part to the torsen style diff, rather than plate type) with a cage, spherical bearing suspension, stupid expensive shocks, and R-Compounds, but physics is physics.
Also, look into CL pads. Very expensive, but perform as well as the DTC70's and last much longer.
Also, look into CL pads. Very expensive, but perform as well as the DTC70's and last much longer.
I posted a response in that thread, but here is what I found in regards to the piston sizes.
M3 Base: 42mm
M3 PUP: 42mm
MS: 44mm
So the pistons are 2mm larger on the S calipers. However, that results in only about a 2% change in brake bias (to the front, assuming PUP Calipers to S Calipers). Track pads are roughly a 10% bias to the front (assuming installing on front only), and the 365mm BBK MPP sells is also about a 10% bias increase to the front (non-PUP).
So, long story short it should make no noticeable difference at all and less than other components on the market.
On my personal car with PUP I have experienced no negative ABS interactions over 1,500 miles of driving with the S Calipers (dry, wet, track, street, etc). I am working to outfit a non-PUP 3 with the S brakes to see how that performs to quell peoples concerns.
hmm... Where did you come up with the 10% bias change for a track pad swap? And where did you come up with 2% bias difference for the 2mm piston size change?
I believe that the proper formula would be caliper force is a function of piston area not diameter. In other words brake force would be proportional to the diameter squared in a given piston size. If you crunch the numbers I believe you get something like a 9% difference when you change from a 42 to a 44 mm piston. Still not huge.
Bias Calculator
It's not perfect but it gets you pretty close.
If you put track pads on the front axle and leave the stock rear pads there is a rather large (roughly 10%) increase in front bias, which many people (myself included) seem to be doing.
Alternatively, leaving the rotor diameter the same and moving from 3 PUP calipers to S calipers results in a relatively small (roughly 2%) increase in front bias.
I think that estimate is DRASTICALLY understating the difference. Coefficient of friction doubles with a good brake pad, and once they are hot, it is even bigger. Also, a 10% change in bias is HUGE. Here is some data on coefficient of friction:
I agree a 10% difference in bias is large, but the alternative is to put track pads on both the front and rear axle to maintain the stock bias which, as far as I know, there are no track pads for the rear calipers (yet).
Regardless, it works great. How do I know; I out-braked virtually every other car on the field at VIR this weekend. So, in theory, between my calipers and the Hawk DTC-70 pads I am running I moved the brake bias forward roughly 12%. I could just barely mash the brake pedal hard enough to induce ABS, and it worked exactly as designed. It was clear the front was locking up and not the rear, so it is possible braking would be further improved with race pads on the rear, but we would need to test that and see what the results are.
Ah, yeah that would be a big deal. What kind of times can these things run at VIR? Road Atlanta is my home track, but sadly, kids' activities have kept me from it since I sold my 968 (still have a 944T, though a bit apart as I am converting to an S to run lighter in the same class). The 968 had a Torsen style diff which would let teh rear get happy, which was scary as f*** going into 10A, at least the first time it happened.
I ran a 2:13 @ VIR. My theoretical (sector-based) best was a 2:12, and I think a sub 2:10 is easy with some suspension mods.
P3D+ @ VIR (Virginia International Raceway) HPDE
The pictures are not showing. Just uploaded
The pictures are not showing. Just uploaded to TMC it seems to work better than trying to host them from a 3rd party.
I'm busy working on some other components, but here is a teaser of the two-piece rotors.
The pictures are not showing. Just uploaded to TMC it seems to work better than trying to host them from a 3rd party.
Almost, final testing takes place the 18th and the 19th! More information to come then.
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